Author Topic: Six Pack issues and rebuilding  (Read 82977 times)

Offline Chryco Psycho

  • Administrator
  • C-C.com Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 36619
  • 70 Challenger R/T SE 70 tube Chassis Cuda now sold
Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #180 on: April 11, 2014 - 11:20:29 am »
even between cylinders?
No a pressure test would not show a leak between cylinders but then you would not be getting white smoke / steam either , does the smoke have a smell ? Usually coolant has a sweet smell

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t




Offline mopar jack

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 565
Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #181 on: April 11, 2014 - 11:35:55 am »
I had an engine that blew smoke for a week after I cleaned it with solvent. It was an old motor on an engine stand and I pulled the pan and srayed it with solvent to remove any sludge. Dried it out and stuck it in the car and it took a long time to stop smoking but it ran for another 15 years. You may have a simular issue after getting gas in your oil. Also I notice you are using an MSD blaster coil. I've had prolbems when they are mounted on their side. I would check to see if there is any oil leaking from the coil where the top is pressed on. The coil can cause a lot of weird problems before it totally fails.

Jack

Offline tommyg29

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2706
Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #182 on: April 11, 2014 - 08:00:07 pm »
Just spent a couple hours messing with it. Compression checked 7 of the 8 (the 8th is a bear  :bigsmile:) and all came out 190-200. I know, something must be wrong with my gauge, but at least they were consistent. When I last had a mechanic check the compression about 5 years ago they were all in the 175-180 range IIRC.
Tried starting again and no fuel pressure. I may be out of fuel again. Last week I put 2 gallons in and hard to believe I went through it already.
Try tomorrow.  :working: :faint:

PS
wonder if Im pumping up a little water from the tank? Water sinks to the bottom, and not be as diluted with a very low level of fuel  :clueless:
« Last Edit: April 11, 2014 - 08:02:13 pm by tommyg29 »
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline tommyg29

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2706
Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #183 on: April 12, 2014 - 01:04:50 pm »
I had an engine that blew smoke for a week after I cleaned it with solvent. It was an old motor on an engine stand and I pulled the pan and srayed it with solvent to remove any sludge. Dried it out and stuck it in the car and it took a long time to stop smoking but it ran for another 15 years. You may have a simular issue after getting gas in your oil. Also I notice you are using an MSD blaster coil. I've had prolbems when they are mounted on their side. I would check to see if there is any oil leaking from the coil where the top is pressed on. The coil can cause a lot of weird problems before it totally fails.

Jack

Thanks, but Im sure the problem is fuel related. I put another 4 gallons fresh 93 in this morning and still no fuel pressure. No squirt from the nozzle. Pressure gauge between the regulator and the carbs registers "0", so went back to the mallory 110 fuel pump and pulled it apart. Thinking that pulling on fumes and whatnot may have damaged the pump? I could hear it running but....anyways it looked clean so putting it back together now.
I am just glad it probably isnt a head gasket.
Wonder if the holley bypass regulator could somehow be bad? I would think if it went bad it would allow too much pressure, instead of not enough. Check that next.  :working:
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline tommyg29

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2706
Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #184 on: April 12, 2014 - 05:20:38 pm »
Got it running again, though still badly. Replaced the fuel filter, went through the fuel pump, replaced some rubber fuel lines back near the tank, and got back my 7pounds of pressure  :2thumbs:
I wish I had some help. Since I cant get it running, I cant get out of the car to work the throttle, look down the throats, observe the fuel pressure, smell and check the exhaust smoke, etc. Maybe its a fuel pressure problem.
 :working: :working: :working:
At least its a beautiful 85 degree day, and the wife is out of town so I dont have to listen to her complain about the smells.
She HATES me anywhere near her if Ive been working with gas, and I cant even smell it. Im a dullard when it comes to the senses, and then theres the whole bringing dirt and grease into the house issue. :misbehaving:

Probably should change the name of this thread again to "Six pack issues and everything else that could probably try your patience, in 999 easy steps!"
Getting so fed up because now I will probably have to wait 3 more weeks before I can work on it again  :pullinghair: :stomp:
« Last Edit: April 12, 2014 - 05:47:25 pm by tommyg29 »
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline tommyg29

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2706
Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #185 on: April 12, 2014 - 06:07:33 pm »
Maybe now Im getting somewhere. I finally just used a pipe to hold the gas pedal down while I looked things over at about 2000 rpm. Noticed LOTS of white smoke (the picture doesnt do it justice...it was a whiteout at one point), and something bubbling around the green marked areas in the first picture. At first I thought it was from the valve cover, but almost certainly coming out the manifold. Also noticed what looked like a fairly clear fluid bubbling out the other side as well, but I cant confirm it to be gas. Also noticed something oily greasy running down the pan under the manifold too. If this stuff leaks out the gasket that easily maybe the lower manifold gaskets are an issue too?
Noticed the pressure dropped from 7 to about 5.5 on the gauge at 2000 rpm and didnt notice it jumping around. Also, probably doesnt mean anything, but noticed the passenger side exhaust tailpipe was wet with fuel having blown all over but the the left side was mostly dry  :clueless:
Obviously if its fuel, where the heck could all that be coming from?? It was literally bubbling out on both sides.
Think Ill try swapping out the inlet needle valve again. Dont know what else could cause that much fuel to be dumped down the manifold except a stuck or overwhelmed valve. Pulled the valve and the site plug... the fuel level was somewhere below the hole. Doesnt make sense.
A wise man (a former boss) once told me, when things dont make sense, drugs are somehow involved. That must be it. My car is on drugs!












Sorry for all the pictures but its the best way I know how to communicate this stuff.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2014 - 06:58:15 pm by tommyg29 »
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline tommyg29

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2706
Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #186 on: April 12, 2014 - 07:49:41 pm »
So aggravating. getting dark and Ive spent all day on it.  :walkaway:
At least I got it started up today.  :cheers:
I have 66 jets now, so maybe I will order some 62s, but I cannot imagine that is my problem. 
Was running 80s before and never had fuel bubbling out the manifold gaskets!:horse:
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline tman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1331
Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #187 on: April 12, 2014 - 08:48:18 pm »
Put your finger in the bubbly stuff and what does it smell like?  You have one anomaly.  For stuff to come out of that area requires great pressure.  This area is supposed to be vacuum and sucking in. 
Can you do a pressure radiator test.  See if it holds pressure (as long as the radiator does not leak).  You will have to get a pressure tester.  Possibly borrow one or something. Could still be a possible head gasket issue or the worse cracked head.  But since its happening on both sides, more of a gasket issue.  Lots of white smoke is steam.  Should smell coolant though. 
Like this:  http://www.amazon.com/Stant-12270-Cooling-System-Pressure/dp/B0002SRGWU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1397349799&sr=8-2&keywords=radiator+pressure+tester+kit
Keep up the patience.  Looks like you have a great car. 

Offline tommyg29

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2706
Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #188 on: April 12, 2014 - 09:11:33 pm »
But how can coolant find its way out there?
It cant be a cracked head...in several places out both sides.

« Last Edit: April 13, 2014 - 01:11:19 am by tommyg29 »
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline tman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1331
Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #189 on: April 13, 2014 - 02:14:13 am »
I agree that it shouldn't be cracked heads because its on both sides.  But there is pressure somewhere making it discharge something out in those areas.  Those areas around the manifold should be vacuum, which is a vacuum leak, instead you are having discharge.  That's the odd thing.  With all that gas going down your cylinders may have affected the head gaskets?  Looks like thinking out of the box on your case.  All the things you have done should have resolved most situations, but it hasn't.  That's why I mention doing a cooling system pressure test.  Pump pressure into radiator and see if it holds.  Also, when motor gets hot, expansion makes the problem worse vs cold?  Or is it just as bad cold and you don't even have a chance to get it warm.  A leak down test of cylinders is a better tool to use for head gasket issues, which is a reverse of the radiator test, except you can put much more pressure in a cylinder vs radiator. 

Offline tommyg29

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2706
Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #190 on: April 13, 2014 - 11:16:07 am »
I agree that it shouldn't be cracked heads because its on both sides.  But there is pressure somewhere making it discharge something out in those areas.  Those areas around the manifold should be vacuum, which is a vacuum leak, instead you are having discharge.  That's the odd thing.  With all that gas going down your cylinders may have affected the head gaskets?  Looks like thinking out of the box on your case.  All the things you have done should have resolved most situations, but it hasn't.  That's why I mention doing a cooling system pressure test.  Pump pressure into radiator and see if it holds.  Also, when motor gets hot, expansion makes the problem worse vs cold?  Or is it just as bad cold and you don't even have a chance to get it warm.  A leak down test of cylinders is a better tool to use for head gasket issues, which is a reverse of the radiator test, except you can put much more pressure in a cylinder vs radiator.

I'll check that out.
The radiator coolant hasnt yet circulated, hasnt gotten warm enough. Still looks nice and greenish and untouched.
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline bandt

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 433
Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #191 on: April 13, 2014 - 01:58:57 pm »
Could it be as simple as blown out manifold gaskets???

 Maybe your seeing coolant being pushed out at the valve cover side and getting in through the intake runners on the head.

Offline tman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1331
Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #192 on: April 13, 2014 - 02:22:11 pm »
Any idea if the motor overheated from the first day?  The brake booster cap was replaced correct?  I know when my brake booster check valve was cracked, my car would not idle and would die with a loud vacuum cleaner sound.  But for your cap to come off altogether could mean you are having the opposite of venting instead of vacuum.  Hmmm.  Is the brake booster check valve ok?  I had a hell of a time looking for the problem with the loud vacuum sound, but then found the hose outlet was cracked.  Disconnect the vacuum hose to check valve and plug it to see if the motor runs better.  I did not have issues of stuff spewing out any gaskets though.  White smoke is concerning.  Hope the cause is just one thing, but there are multiple symptoms. No one needs to go thru this. 

Offline Strawdawg

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2209
    • Vortex Buicks
Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #193 on: April 13, 2014 - 05:07:37 pm »
Be nice to know what was bubbling out of the intake manifold at the heads.  As already said, there should be a vacuum there and things should be sucked in, not pushed out-unless, possibly, there was a leak in the headgaskets and the pressure from combustion was pushing coolant out and back into an adjacent cylinder overcoming the intake seal at the head.

No coolant in the intake so it would have to come via the heads or block...strikes me strange that it does it on both sides....

I have not had a lot of luck finding a hg leak with a compression test.....prefer the radiator pressure test, or a leak down test....

sure looks like coolant in the exhaust from the picture...gas is black when over rich and oil is more bluish white and smells strongly like oil

Offline bandt

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 433
Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #194 on: April 13, 2014 - 05:29:19 pm »
Be nice to know what was bubbling out of the intake manifold at the heads.  As already said, there should be a vacuum there and things should be sucked in, not pushed out-unless, possibly, there was a leak in the headgaskets and the pressure from combustion was pushing coolant out and back into an adjacent cylinder overcoming the intake seal at the head.

No coolant in the intake so it would have to come via the heads or block...strikes me strange that it does it on both sides....

I have not had a lot of luck finding a hg leak with a compression test.....prefer the radiator pressure test, or a leak down test....

sure looks like coolant in the exhaust from the picture...gas is black when over rich and oil is more bluish white and smells strongly like oil



I was thinking the RB manifold had coolant crossovers like the LA.

Brian