Author Topic: Six Pack issues and rebuilding  (Read 82936 times)

Offline tommyg29

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #135 on: April 05, 2014 - 03:07:29 pm »
So my stock volume is 25cc?
Discharge nozzle is #31, and switching back to my original cam #290
Just watched a Holley video description.
The sizes go from about 25 (25/1000) to about 52, and from their description the sizes below 30 are typically for "heavier" cars with highway gearing (ie. slower)
Their adjusting descriptions on the video are pretty clear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW6YGxVTW5Y

Thanks to everyone for the six pack seminars  :wave:
Still have a ways to go to tune this thing but hopefully Im getting there.
It did start a little while ago but coughed, spit and blew lots of smoke for all of the 30 seconds before I shut it down, so Im doing some more fiddling.
A few weeks ago when I got my "old" setup running again it seemed to run fine, but like I said, it also developed leaks here and there, and that scared me.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2014 - 03:12:20 pm by tommyg29 »
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
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Offline tommyg29

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #136 on: April 05, 2014 - 03:48:08 pm »
Running only on primary, coughing and spitting badly...not wanting to run. Brand new plugs are solid black.

Update....10 minutes later, forgot to uncap and connect the vacuum lines, running much better but still blowing lots of smoke.

Update again, an hour later because I ran out of gas. Put a couple gallons in and now runs like crap again! :clueless:
Think Ill take a break until tomorrow.
Have to watch my Gators playing in the Final 4 tonight.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2014 - 04:42:25 pm by tommyg29 »
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline cuda346pk

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #137 on: April 05, 2014 - 10:58:37 pm »
I am rejetting/tuning mine now too. Everything I have read and heard says to go richer on all the 6 pack setups. However just read last night in a Mopar Muscle feature on an AAR that had "MR 6 PACK" Bob Karakashian. He mentioned a tip - go lean. 80% of the time those 6 pack carbs are way too rich. We dialed back the jets 3 soz we s from stock. Don't know if he is referring to the big blocks too or not but on my SB it seems to be accurate. I started with 64 center jets and 84 outers. Way rich. Back to stock 62 in center and 82 outers. Still rich on AFR meter most of the time. Got a pair of 59's tonight and ordered 60s, 80 and 78s too. I may need to play with my cams too as it jumps real rich at any throttle touch. Are u running with the outers disconnected from vacuum right now to get your center dialed first? I have not been and not sure if disconnecting them or using black springs to hold em closed is the better way to do it.  Doesn't matter on the bowl I sent you but I may be interested that 340 outer you had for spare parts. If you need any weird parts for yours I do have the rest of that carb still.

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David - In Georgia

1972 'Cuda In-Violet 340 6 Pack 4 Speed 3.91 Sure Grip - Finally, after 27 years of waiting and dreaming it is real. Now the fun begins!

Offline tommyg29

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #138 on: April 06, 2014 - 12:49:45 pm »
I am rejetting/tuning mine now too. Everything I have read and heard says to go richer on all the 6 pack setups. However just read last night in a Mopar Muscle feature on an AAR that had "MR 6 PACK" Bob Karakashian. He mentioned a tip - go lean. 80% of the time those 6 pack carbs are way too rich. We dialed back the jets 3 soz we s from stock. Don't know if he is referring to the big blocks too or not but on my SB it seems to be accurate. I started with 64 center jets and 84 outers. Way rich. Back to stock 62 in center and 82 outers. Still rich on AFR meter most of the time. Got a pair of 59's tonight and ordered 60s, 80 and 78s too. I may need to play with my cams too as it jumps real rich at any throttle touch. Are u running with the outers disconnected from vacuum right now to get your center dialed first? I have not been and not sure if disconnecting them or using black springs to hold em closed is the better way to do it.  Doesn't matter on the bowl I sent you but I may be interested that 340 outer you had for spare parts. If you need any weird parts for yours I do have the rest of that carb still.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


Interesting,
Once I get everything sorted out I will organize what I have left over and let you know before I put anything on ebay.
I just installed 66s primary and 80s in the secondaries, and my "old" setup was 80s and 86s.
The way its running (or not running) makes me think the connection between the accelerator pump and the discharge nozzle is messed up. Maybe a gasket misaligned? Will take it apart again
I assume this is the route:



« Last Edit: April 08, 2014 - 10:31:06 pm by tommyg29 »
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline HP_Cuda

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #139 on: April 06, 2014 - 01:07:51 pm »

Your last pic shows the squirter path.

Which cam are you running now and which position is it in?

Sounds like you are running pretty rich, is it smoking at idle or when you hit the gas?

B
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1970 Cuda 383 4 speed - yellow - SOLD

Offline tommyg29

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #140 on: April 06, 2014 - 02:59:41 pm »
Cant really get it to idle. Running the 290 cam in position 1, but have the main all apart again. When I sprayed carb cleaner through the red circled hole in picture above, nothing came out the discharge nozzle.
I think the discharge nozzle isnt lining up perfectly, meaning maybe the inner holes arent lining up with the slots on either side of the threaded hole? When I tighten it down the nozzle tends to twist just slightly. Also, my upper washer, the flexible one against the nozzle set screw is beat up. May have to order a new kit just to get that stupid washer.
But that probably isnt the problem, or at least not the only problem.  Maybe its the main gasket? This time I used the bottom right one which has one extra hole.
I probably have a combination of issues so I will get another rebuild kit and try again.  :dupe: :pullinghair:




« Last Edit: April 08, 2014 - 10:33:31 pm by tommyg29 »
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline mopar jack

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #141 on: April 06, 2014 - 03:13:07 pm »
There is a check valve below the discharge nozzle so a spray can may not squirt through without a little pressure.

Offline tommyg29

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #142 on: April 06, 2014 - 03:21:01 pm »
There is a check valve below the discharge nozzle so a spray can may not squirt through without a little pressure.
May be, but I should get a new washer.
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline tommyg29

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #143 on: April 06, 2014 - 03:49:05 pm »
My car is a tribute, and the choke has always been disconnected (I live in warm weather), so absolute originality isnt that important, especially for something you cant really see.
Would it be practical to remove the entire choke assembly on the passenger side, and the flap, etc? It all just seems to get in the way.
Ok, an hour later and put it all back together, this time with my old blue gasket, which I know worked,  and this is where I sit, still not wanting to run or idle on its own, and constantly blowing lots of smoke. Sounds like its badly choking on itself. No difference. Funny thing is, before I started running out of gas yesterday, it did idle, not well, but it was a lot better than this.
Guess I'll try again next weekend.




« Last Edit: April 08, 2014 - 10:35:36 pm by tommyg29 »
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #144 on: April 06, 2014 - 08:01:53 pm »
 I wish I was closer , anyway yes you can remove the choke system , once you remove the squirter there is a pin under there that prevents back flow , it can get stuck , if it will not move with pump pressure or cleaner try tapping lightly on it it will come loose allowing fuel through .
 I would use 61 jets in the middle carb
idle can be affected by idle screws & bleeds also the powervalve but not by jetting

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Offline tommyg29

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #145 on: April 06, 2014 - 09:19:17 pm »
Thanks. I am going to just remove the choke system then. Hardest part will be removing the two stripped little brass screws on the shaft. Probably just drill them out.
Dont think the pin is a problem. It seems to slide in and out freely.
Smallest jets I have in my kit are 65s so I will order a pair of 62s. Worth a try, though most other advice Ive read suggests 64-66 for a mild build like mine with headers and exhaust. Going leaner with 59-60 like Karakasian suggests sounds interesting but I would rather run rich than lean.
Like you said though I cant believe the jets are my problem. Its not just the idling, it really wont run at all without a lot of throttle, and then choking like its running on 4 cylinders. When I let off the gas it just coughs, spits and quits.
Ive removed these carbs at least 6 or 7 times, and I havent been able to even start tuning.  :dupe: :horse:
« Last Edit: April 06, 2014 - 09:28:45 pm by tommyg29 »
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline CudamanTom

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #146 on: April 06, 2014 - 09:23:45 pm »
Sorry I can't add anything to the fix but I just have to say this thread is very helpful from you and everyone's inputs on thoughts and ideas (for future troubleshooting in the future).  :2thumbs: :ylsuper:
I'll be installing my 6 pack sometime soon and so I keep focused on this thread to learn. And I'm learning every day.  :2thumbs:

I wish you luck for a quick and easy fix.  :bigsmile:

Is this thread a sticky? If not, it needs to be.  :cheers:
1971 Cuda Vert 440-833 - (clone)
1971 Cuda 440-727 - (clone)


Because I like it fast!!!

Offline tommyg29

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #147 on: April 06, 2014 - 09:33:28 pm »
If it were a sticky I would link all the pictures to my photobucket account for more longevity.  :bigsmile:
This is a frustrating experience for a nubee like me
Done lots of reading, and Chryco your Holley carb tuning guide has been very helpful
« Last Edit: April 06, 2014 - 09:41:08 pm by tommyg29 »
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline HP_Cuda

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #148 on: April 06, 2014 - 09:37:22 pm »
Seems that Holley suggest that the cam be in the #1 position for stock and your primary main jet should be a 62. As well, the power valve should be a 6.5 which is noted as stock.

I've yanked my choke off several times so it won't hurt you, can be a little pain though.

And here is a good read for tuning of the carb:
http://www.holley.com/data/Products/Technical/199R7849-2rev1.pdf

Here is the trick kit for this carb which will have most of the goodies you will want:
http://www.holley.com/37-933.asp

« Last Edit: April 06, 2014 - 09:43:04 pm by HP_Cuda »
1970 Cuda Clone 440 4 speed - sublime green
1970 Cuda 383 4 speed - yellow - SOLD

Offline tommyg29

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #149 on: April 06, 2014 - 09:58:21 pm »
Thanks....more reading  :bigsmile:

Another question... will the fancier nozzle with the brass tips be any better. Its a couple bucks more.


« Last Edit: April 08, 2014 - 10:36:41 pm by tommyg29 »
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....