Author Topic: Six Pack issues and rebuilding  (Read 90928 times)

Offline cudabob496

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Re: May have over revved the engine- fuel issue?
« Reply #60 on: February 11, 2014 - 05:12:57 pm »
Good place to start but you may have to go lower on your jets depending on how your motor responds to the outboards.

Seems like for tuning a 6 pak, an AFR meter is almost a must.
72 Cuda, owned 25 years. 496, with ported Stage VI heads, .625 in solid roller, 254/258 at .050, 3500 stall, 3.91 rear. 850 Holley DP, Reverse manual valve body.

1999 Trans Am, LS1, heads, cam, headers, stall, etc! Love to surprise the rice rockets with this one. They seem so confident, then it's "what the heck just happened?"

2011 Kawasaki Z1000




Offline tommyg29

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Re: May have over revved the engine- fuel issue?
« Reply #61 on: February 11, 2014 - 09:33:30 pm »
I installed a wideband gauge in my twin turbo stealth because it was absolutely necessary to properly and safely tune with an air/fuel controller, increased boost, etc, but I just dont want to go that route with the cuda.
Sure, an afr gauge would make it easier, but the old school methods work too. Not that I am any expert, far from it, but some of the best tuners consist of your ears and the seat of your pants.  :working: :burnout:  :cheers:
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline tommyg29

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Re: May have over revved the engine- fuel issue?
« Reply #62 on: February 15, 2014 - 05:28:54 pm »
Finally got to putting the carbs back together after letting things soak in mineral spirits for the better part of a week.
Got the inboard put together with only a few minor issues.
Pulled apart the outboards and found a few things.

First, my front outboard has some minor damage to the outside front of the float bowl that could cause some sticking of the float, but it seems to operate freely. However, the dent made it very difficult to actually remove the float, so something is amiss there.

Also, my outboards have exposed idle needles, and one of the tips was broken off. At first of course I turned them in and found all four outboards out about 5/8 to 3/4 turn, but one of them the point stayed stuck in its hole, and I had to push it out from the throat.

Finally, my rebuild kit only came with one "110" fuel inlet needle valave, so I had to order two more for the outboards. I hope "110" is the correct size. My outboards werent labeled.
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline spamtank

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Re: May have over revved the engine- fuel issue?
« Reply #63 on: February 15, 2014 - 06:23:12 pm »
This has been an interesting and informative thread.  Thanks Tommy!   :2thumbs:
Rick, Manchester, NH
1970 SE 383 2V AT Challenger
1977 M882/W200 Power Wagon
2013 RT Plus 6M

Offline 4Cruizn

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Re: May have over revved the engine- fuel issue?
« Reply #64 on: February 15, 2014 - 07:11:04 pm »
This has been an interesting and informative thread.  Thanks Tommy!   :2thumbs:

I totally agree . . . Carbs are not my strong suit and I definitely learned a couple things in this thread!   :cheers:

Offline cudabob496

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Re: May have over revved the engine- fuel issue?
« Reply #65 on: February 15, 2014 - 07:24:03 pm »
from all I've read, .110 will be fine
72 Cuda, owned 25 years. 496, with ported Stage VI heads, .625 in solid roller, 254/258 at .050, 3500 stall, 3.91 rear. 850 Holley DP, Reverse manual valve body.

1999 Trans Am, LS1, heads, cam, headers, stall, etc! Love to surprise the rice rockets with this one. They seem so confident, then it's "what the heck just happened?"

2011 Kawasaki Z1000

Offline tommyg29

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Re: May have over revved the engine- Six Pack fuel issue?
« Reply #66 on: February 15, 2014 - 11:02:35 pm »
Ok, a few pictures.
First, the front outboard bowl with a dent in it.


And the inboard bowl with a temporary clear sight plug. Cost $4 each and should help with adjusting the float level.


Before and after shots of the choke shaft. It was a little bent, and I carefully straightened it using a small block of wood. My choke is disconnected though, so it is basically wired in the open position. I cleaned everything up best I reasonably could, but still very tarnished and stained.



The throttle plates, shaft and screws. Not exactly streamlined.


Picture of the inboard jets...for comparison,,, my prior .080 jet on the left (about as fat as a toothpick) and my new .066 jet (slightly larger than stock). By my calculation, the difference in size is .066" versus .093",  Pi- r- squared means the .080 flowed almost exactly TWICE as much fuel.


Why arent these needles replaceable??? Theyre plugged off at the top.


The broken needle I pulled out of my front outboard. Ordered a couple new ones off ebay today. Hopefully I picked the right type since these dont have any part numbers on them.


Pictures of meter block gaskets, existing blue one top left and the exact match upper right, but as with all these kits there are a bunch of additional gaskets. How do I know for sure the lower right gasket isnt the right one though. It has one extra hole which looks like it could provide a function, but  :clueless: :dunno: guess I have no choice but to use the exact match.


The fuel inlet needle and seat valves (old and new), both are .110.
I'm guessing this could have been my original problem. Notice the older type has a bigger plunger.


And finally, the finished inboard unit. Still ugly, but at least its cleaner.
For about $500 I guess I could get a brand new one, but for a total of about $140 in parts to do all three units, including all new connecting fuel lines, etc, it's worth a try.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2014 - 09:58:39 pm by tommyg29 »
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline jhaag

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Re: May have over revved the engine- Six Pack fuel issue?
« Reply #67 on: February 15, 2014 - 11:33:54 pm »
You will be fine with .110 ns. if you can get them in stainless, a better option given the quality of fuel. I would replace that bowl if it were mine. Should be easy to find new or used. (unless you are #s matching) Also the outboard carbs should have had sealed idle screws. (At least my T/A did) Looks like somebody has really messed yours up. :2cents:
love 70 Challengers

Offline tommyg29

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Re: May have over revved the engine- Six Pack fuel issue?
« Reply #68 on: February 16, 2014 - 12:15:10 am »
I ordered two more .110s for the outboard carbs and I will be putting them together next weekend
Yeah, they arent pretty, but remember they are at least 43 years old, were last gone through about 10 years ago by the prior owner, and who knows how many hands theyve been wrenched with over the years..
« Last Edit: February 16, 2014 - 12:17:04 am by tommyg29 »
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline cudabob496

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Re: May have over revved the engine- Six Pack fuel issue?
« Reply #69 on: February 16, 2014 - 01:40:37 am »
I installed the sight glasses, which are helpful, but I cannot get them out now, at least by unscrewing.
I think the plexiglass either swelled, or is fused to the bowl some other way.  I'll just have to remove bowl
and drill them out someday.
72 Cuda, owned 25 years. 496, with ported Stage VI heads, .625 in solid roller, 254/258 at .050, 3500 stall, 3.91 rear. 850 Holley DP, Reverse manual valve body.

1999 Trans Am, LS1, heads, cam, headers, stall, etc! Love to surprise the rice rockets with this one. They seem so confident, then it's "what the heck just happened?"

2011 Kawasaki Z1000

Offline cuda346pk

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Re: May have over revved the engine- Six Pack fuel issue?
« Reply #70 on: February 16, 2014 - 05:57:16 am »
I had the clear plugs break and leak on mine. They were holley ones too.
Tommy, I have a broken carb that I replaced on mine. It is actually a 440 carb too. 71 I believe. I think the bowl is ok. The throttle plate is cracked. If u want to replace the one you have u are welcome to it.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

David - In Georgia

1972 'Cuda In-Violet 340 6 Pack 4 Speed 3.91 Sure Grip - Finally, after 27 years of waiting and dreaming it is real. Now the fun begins!

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: May have over revved the engine- Six Pack fuel issue?
« Reply #71 on: February 16, 2014 - 07:10:46 am »
The fuel bowls for the 6 pack are unique , I always had to order them direct from Holley or you can swap with the rear carb to hide the dent , the lower # carb goes to the front BTW

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline brads70

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Re: May have over revved the engine- Six Pack fuel issue?
« Reply #72 on: February 16, 2014 - 08:01:10 am »
I had the clear plugs break and leak on mine. They were holley ones too.
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

 :iagree:  Same here.( Don't leave them in) Tom did mention they were just temporary to set the level.  :2thumbs:
I'd add in to get a can of carb cleaners and really clean out the bleed holes( and all the other holes too?) to make sure they are not blocked. I've used an old toothbrush and the carb cleaner to clean everything up.
Looking great though Tom, good job! :2thumbs:
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
 My handling upgrade post
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0

Offline tommyg29

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Re: May have over revved the engine- Six Pack fuel issue?
« Reply #73 on: February 16, 2014 - 09:31:07 am »
Yep, carb cleaner and a tootbrush came in very handy. I dont have compressed air in my garage so using the cleaner to spray out the holes.
And yes I planned on swapping the float bowls front to rear. What do you mean lower # carb to the front?
You mean jetting?
All my outboard jets were at 86 BTW, and I plan to start with 80s initially, though I understand a perfect tune could easily end up with all different.
I dont expect to get them perfect, just hopefully close enough to idle well, and not blow clouds of gas when I punch it.  :bigsmile: :burnout:
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline mopar jack

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Re: May have over revved the engine- Six Pack fuel issue?
« Reply #74 on: February 16, 2014 - 10:56:42 am »
A good article on setting six packs. Long and a little confusing but a good place to start for jetting.


http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/fuel/7.html