EBAY CHALLENGER?

[706pkVert]

No Dave, I am not a liar. You seem to be having trouble with the "truths"!

1) Yes you provided me with parts, did I use them all? NO!
2) I did not use the 3 pieces of glass.
3) I did not use all of your tires, i bought and traded tires to get the best set I could!
4) I did not use the custom made gaskets.
5) I did not use the diamond wheel weights.
6) I did not use the NOS transmission cover.
7) I did not use the new car delivery tag or visor cover.
I did not use all of your decals.

I am not saying you did not help me. The products I did use were excellent. You seem to be denying the FACT that we did not have a problem until AFTER the nats judging score was made known to you! Prior to that I too considered you a friend. You are the one that propelled our "friendship" into the gutter with your parade of viscious emails, comments and harassing actions!

You have not even seen this car but continue to try and cut it down with poor pics scanned from a magazine or taken from the internet. The sheer amount of time you dedicate to your destructive efforts is astonishing.

You are trying to paint me as some sort of scammer here by suggesting I stamp blocks? Endorse repro build sheets?, that is not a good idea. That is a flat out lie! Are you forgetting, the reproduction sheet passed through your hands too! YOU made it! YOU offered this service! You sold a product you offered to my customer through me, that's it.

The bottom line is the car did have an original buildsheet and I would assume the current owner has that in his posession along with the beautiful reproduction you provided! This does not change the legitimacy or rarity of the car! The car is real!

These pics show the lack of use for many of the products you sold me that YOU think are on the Duster but are not!

Why does any of this matter? I am scratching my head. I am literally sickened that I am entertaining this garbage from you on the internet at 10:57 PM on a FRIDAY night!!

Seriously Dave get over this, get a life and stop bothering me. This is so petty.

[TinCuda]

I love our hobby.


.,

[ECS]

No Dave, I am not a liar. .......Are you forgetting, the reproduction sheet passed through your hands too! YOU made it! YOU offered this service!

Mike, this entire ordeal is sad.  You originally told me you used the parts and now you say you didn't.  At which time were you telling me the truth or lying?  Did you personally absorb the cost of those items (that you were charged for) or did you charge your Customer for things that weren't used?  You either wasted your personal money or you charged your Customer for them.  We have also contacted you more than 3 times, issued a call tag to have the glass (you supposedly didn't use) picked up and returned for a full refund.  Why have you refused to return it?  If you personally absorbed the cost, don't you want the $1080?  If you didn't pay for it, did you refund the amount to your Customer?  Why did you order things that you didn't need?  Someone is certainly out a significant amount of money for no reason!    

I have ALWAYS admitted to everything I have made or reproduced.  If I sold you a Baseball Bat and you used it to beat someone over the head, would that be my fault?  I didn't make anything for your "Customer".  I made it for you!  I never knew or talked to the person who owned the Challenger you restored.  Exactly who in the link of Owners has decided to scam the Industry?  Did you tell your "Customer" it was fake?   I've never harassed your Customer(S).  I do have the right to confront/contact the other liar who has done his best to contact Magazine Editors, Judges, etc..... (over the past seven years) in an attempt to fabricate stories about my projects.  Sorry he also happens to coincidentally be your "Customer".
 
Lets get back on track here.  This thread was started with respect to an eBay 1970 Challenger, which advertises a "fake" Build-sheet (instead of the "real one" Mike says it has) being billed as original.  So far we have seen stampings from the LA Plant, the Windsor Plant and 1969 stampings.  Admittedly, those are different!  As I stated earlier, every 1970-71 Hamtramck stamping I have documented exhibits a vertical-parallel line "0".  Does anyone have an original 1970 Hamtramck, Chrysler Engine Block (aside from the one in the eBay auction) that exhibits a rounded "0"?   Thanks! 

[706pkVert]

Yes here's one of many. http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?t=8705

The fresh crisp reproduction build sheet was originally obtained for display purposes for my customer. The original exists somwhere. I have no current involvement with the car or its sale(s). I am not in practice of policing the hobby. I am contracted to restore cars, not monitor them for life after my work is complete.

I will attest to the promo Challenger being 100% matching numbers engine and to be a legit rare factory show car! At the time I was involved with its restoration, it was only a 3 owner car with 2 owners being from the same family.

Yes the parts that were purchased and not used were absorbed by me. I don't need the $1080 back, i'd rather keep the glass as proof.

It must really be empowering for you to have found a forum that seems to allow your unnessesary, unfounded lies and destruction. Enjoy!

[BS CUDA]

I for one am tired of the way this thread is turning out as well as the other one like it that was taking place awhile back. This is not a courtroom, it is a forum to share information and our cars. Ecs - as far as I know your products reputation are good - can't please everyone. 706pkvert why don't you post pics of your car - even though it isn't an ebody, I am sure we can all appreciate it. Bickering aside...............

[ECS]

Yes here's one of many. .........The fresh crisp reproduction build sheet was originally obtained for display purposes for my customer.

I think anyone with any sense has seen through your contradictions and double talk.  Of course there was a real Build-sheet!  Thats why you never sent an original copy and the "original" is not pictured or used in the eBay Auction.  Most people who sell a vehicle for $260,000 use the Reproduction Build-sheet in their ad and leave the real one hidden.  (Makes perfect sense!) Then you claim I tried to "hurt" and hinder your efforts by helping you and supplying countless parts because I didn't want you to score well with your car?  Brilliant deduction!  You wasted money on parts and ordered them because you really didn't need them....right?  I spent countless hours making you custom decals and locating obsolete glass just for the fun of it.....right?!?  And you told someone that you couldn't return the glass because I refused to accept it back?   You and your "customer" know exactly why this ordeal started "after" the Show.  Now you try and use a mid year 1969 St.Louis block as proof for a 1970 Hamtramck block Stamping?  You obviously need to stay on Moparts where they will protect and help you hide things like this. 


Sorry for all of this Garbage BS CUDA but the Industry has the right to know the things that take place in THE PEOPLE'S Hobby!

[torredcuda]

I for one am tired of the way this thread is turning out as well as the other one like it that was taking place awhile back. This is not a courtroom, it is a forum to share information and our cars. Ecs - as far as I know your products reputation are good - can't please everyone. 706pkvert why don't you post pics of your car - even though it isn't an ebody, I am sure we can all appreciate it. Bickering aside...............

ECS sems to like controversy as he starts a lot of it.

[R/T hedkace]

Hi Mike......how ya been man? 

I have personally met Mike before, and I have talked on the phone with him as well.
The work he does on our beloved cars is simply incredible and above all, he is a good dude.

It's unfortunate things like this come up, but it is part of the hobby, like it, or not.

 I won't get in the middle of it, as it's none of my business, but just wanted to stand up for a stand up guy 

[ragtopdodge]

I think any repo BS needs to have a BIG watermark on it saying "REPRODUCTION."

Sure, if one makes an exact $100 bill, u cant control what someone is going to do with it. Which is why there must be some resp to ensure its not used for verification of authenticity.

[torredcuda]

The same can be said for repro fender tags, window stickers, door stickers etc. Anyone remember the fake `70 Daytona "paperwork"?

[ECS]

The same can be said for repro fender tags, window stickers, door stickers etc. Anyone remember the fake `70 Daytona "paperwork"?

We are licensed by the Ford Motor Company, the Chrysler Corporation, Fiat, General Motors, Mazda, Jaguar, Ventures, Nummi, Coda, etc.... for the items we manufacture.  ECS is also a Tier 1 supplier for some of these Auto Manufacturers and also PPAP Certified.  Saying what we do is unethical or wrong is like saying that the U.S. Treasury shouldn't be manufacturing currency because there are illegal counterfeiters out there.  For example, we manufactured a VIN label for a "fake" Hemicuda a few years ago.  We received a legitimate title from a DMV in Alabama for the documentation.  The owner apparently was able to have a real title made for the "Fake" Automobile.  We were not found culpable to any degree because the title company from Alabama messed up by issuing a real "fake" title to the Owner.  The problem started there!  We are also the only Company other than the Manufacturers to reproduce 1990 and later, VIN labels.  There are constant attempts from Repair Shops to have us make "fake" labels from "real" documentation.  That is why we have proprietary access to internal information and work with the NICB. 

Keep in mind that a Broadcast Sheet is NOT (and was never) considered a registration/Federal document like a Monroney Sticker, VIN Plate, etc......  It was used for instructing each assembly station as to what specific option(s) were used on a particular vehicle.  It wasn't until many years later that the Mopar Hobby started to use them as a source of documentation and given a "Holy Grail" status.  The majority of Broadcast Sheets were nothing more than trash once they served their purpose.  The ones found within the the car were left there because certain work station Employees were able to "hide" the paperwork and save themselves the time of throwing them away.

[torredcuda]

I never said that reproducing them is unethical or wrong,just saying that they can be used to fake a car.Like anything it can used the way it was intended to restore a car or illegally to fake one which is obviuosly up the indivual  consumer not the manufacturer.

[ECS]

I never said that reproducing them is unethical or wrong,just saying that they can be used to fake a car.Like anything it can used the way it was intended to restore a car or illegally to fake one which is obviuosly up the indivual  consumer not the manufacturer.

I completely agree!

[RamSRT]

Ecs - as far as I know your products reputation are good - can't please everyone. 706pkvert why don't you post pics of your car - even though it isn't an ebody, I am sure we can all appreciate it.

ECS products have brought a new level of authenticity to the hobby. I know considerable research for original examples and correct material are at the top of the list when new products are introduced. Everyone at ECS takes the many licenses and relationships with the OE Manufacturers very seriously.  To have those products cast in a negative light without cause doesn't compute. The many car projects and Dave's drive to put out the best product are without question.  The car projects themselves have spawned many new products for the company and the hobby ( with more in the pipeline-  E body Exhaust comes to mind).

BS Cuda - your suggestion on posting pictures is a great one. Dave has tried to pass on his research knowledge to the hobby to help . Certainly others should feel the same generosity and dedication to the hobby. 

Tom

RPM Guy