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Author Topic: Stroker vs Regular 440 build  (Read 3553 times)

Offline HP_Cuda

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Stroker vs Regular 440 build
« on: June 18, 2012 - 07:28:38 PM »

I've been thinking about my 440 build quite a bit lately and after reading a bunch of stroker threads I thought it might be beneficial for a advantages/disadvantages thread about going stroker versus building a 440 standard stroke and running it higher rpm.

I'm thinking if this is beneficial we might even throw in known engine recipes which work as to take out the guesswork of building out a mopar bigblock. Excuse me if this has already been done but I have not found one yet with the same type of goals.

Let me know what you think....
1970 Cuda Clone 440 4speed - sublime green
1970 Cuda 383 Hemi 4 speed - yellow

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Stroker vs Regular 440 build
« on: June 18, 2012 - 07:28:38 PM »



Offline HP_Cuda

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Re: Stroker vs Regular 440 build
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2012 - 07:33:46 PM »
I'll take a shot at the 440 advantages/disadvantages:

Stroker
---------
Pros: Bigger displacement, higher torque, ...
Cons: Specialty parts, need for machining to accept longer stroke crank, low vacuum, ...

Regular Stroke
------------------
Pros: Parts easy to find, ability to run higher rpms, ...
Cons: Smaller displacement than a Stroker, harder to generate torque as Stroker, ...
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012 - 03:08:09 PM by HP_Cuda »
1970 Cuda Clone 440 4speed - sublime green
1970 Cuda 383 Hemi 4 speed - yellow

Offline RCCDrew

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Stroker vs Regular 440 build
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2012 - 07:42:02 PM »
Interesting read on bore vs. stroke.

http://www.rehermorrison.com/blog/?p=220

Offline C O D Y

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Re: Stroker vs Regular 440 build
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2012 - 07:53:07 PM »
What are you going to do with your car?  Race, Cruise, Drive around town, Shows?  What size tires are you going to run?  Horse power comes at a cost.  If you want big lumpy cam high horse power, you're going to need some things that wouldn't be needed if you're building a stock looking show car driver.  Also, what's your budget?  Making big HP with a big stroker can add up to a lot of $ fast.

Offline moparmaniac59

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Re: Stroker vs Regular 440 build
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2012 - 08:19:35 PM »
If you're looking for known engine recipies, try going to the "Proven Engine Combo's" thread. There is a wealth of very detailed info on different tried & true engine combo's. Some standard, some stroker, some simple & fairly easy on the wallet and some more complicated & more costly. Speed costs money...how fast do you want to go??  :working:


                                                                         Matt B.
Matt

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Stroker vs Regular 440 build
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2012 - 11:20:05 PM »
There is a balance to everything , My preference on street engines is to get a long flat torque curve & maintain rod ratio for longer life . Good in theory !!
 Looking at the link posted above there are some good points . Better breathing will get more power with RPM , once the heads cannot flow enough to feed the engine the power will drop off fast . The Iron head 512 will peak around 5200-5400 RPM & pull weel to 6000 max but this works well on the street , you should be over 400 Ft lbs at the tires from 1800-2000 all the way into the 5200 range .
 The Slant 6 is a great case study , long rods & small bore , lots of torque but not powerful or efficient really , the smaller bore restricts valve size & breathing , newer engine will beat it up on power & milage . They do respond well to turbos , Superchargers & nitrous as a way to get more air into the cylinder .
 Upside to a stroker more cubes , less rotating mass , faster RPM spool up , torque everywhere , the engine wastes less power on itself , a conservative build may not cost much more than simply rebuilding the original 440 .
 Downsides are not a lot , minor block clearancing unless you go to 540+ " then oil pick up needs to be outside the oil pan  & machining for extra clearance is needed , You may need bigger heads, intake & carb to feed enough air for the RPM you want to use it for .

Offline HP_Cuda

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Re: Stroker vs Regular 440 build
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2012 - 02:37:28 PM »

Interesting read.

"Peak cylinder pressure occurs at approximately 30 degrees ATDC, and drops dramatically by the time that the rod has its maximum leverage against the crank arm. Consequently the mechanical torque advantage of a long stroke is significantly diminished by the reduced force thats pushing against the piston when the leverage of a long crankshaft stroke is greatest."

Kinda make sense but again I guess its all in what you want to achieve.

Interesting read on bore vs. stroke.

http://www.rehermorrison.com/blog/?p=220
1970 Cuda Clone 440 4speed - sublime green
1970 Cuda 383 Hemi 4 speed - yellow

Offline HP_Cuda

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Re: Stroker vs Regular 440 build
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2012 - 03:07:43 PM »

There is some good data there but a bit sparse and it doesn't take into consideration building a stroker vs an rpm motor vis a vis pros and cons. What would be really helpful is build info, dyno results, drivability report.

If you're looking for known engine recipies, try going to the "Proven Engine Combo's" thread. There is a wealth of very detailed info on different tried & true engine combo's. Some standard, some stroker, some simple & fairly easy on the wallet and some more complicated & more costly. Speed costs money...how fast do you want to go??  :working:


                                                                         Matt B.
1970 Cuda Clone 440 4speed - sublime green
1970 Cuda 383 Hemi 4 speed - yellow

Offline HP_Cuda

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Re: Stroker vs Regular 440 build
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2012 - 03:09:06 PM »

I'm thinking that this thread was going to help folks choose a path but I guess I should have just posted what I was thinking and have you guys poke holes in the theory.

What are you going to do with your car?  Race, Cruise, Drive around town, Shows?  What size tires are you going to run?  Horse power comes at a cost.  If you want big lumpy cam high horse power, you're going to need some things that wouldn't be needed if you're building a stock looking show car driver.  Also, what's your budget?  Making big HP with a big stroker can add up to a lot of $ fast.
1970 Cuda Clone 440 4speed - sublime green
1970 Cuda 383 Hemi 4 speed - yellow

Offline HP_Cuda

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Re: Stroker vs Regular 440 build
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2012 - 03:53:53 PM »
The Theory:
Originally I was almost completely on board with building out a big stroker motor. Why not right? You almost spend the same amount of money and you gain cubes in the process. Then I started thinking that with the amount of HP and Torque I was shooting for (~600/600) that the torque for the drivetrain is completely insanely overkill. Basically with that much toque you have built the most efficient tire killing machine cause it will never hook up ever. As well, if it ever did you would munch your 8 3/4 and most likely the 833 (not 18 spline - donations being accepted!).

Then my thoughts turned to building a higher rpm standard stroke 440 with a nice cam that is street-able but not lumpy as your morning oatmeal. So the idea goes something like this:

440 rpm motor:

1969 HP 440 block bored 60 over (was 45 - :( )
Stealth heads (full port job - make her flow!)
10.5 flat top pistons (haven't decided yet - possibly the setup from 440source which would require milling)
CCA-23-712-9 Comp Roller cam
Crane Cams 1.6 Roller Rockers CRN-64751
COMP Cams Pro Magnum Hydraulic Roller Lifters
440 Source 4340 Crank (standard)
440 Source H-Beam Rods
Mopar M1 intake
Holley 850 cfm Carb
Unilite Distributor although looking at the Pro-Billet MSD
M6AL box



1970 Cuda Clone 440 4speed - sublime green
1970 Cuda 383 Hemi 4 speed - yellow

Offline HP_Cuda

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Re: Stroker vs Regular 440 build
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2012 - 03:59:18 PM »
1970 Cuda Clone 440 4speed - sublime green
1970 Cuda 383 Hemi 4 speed - yellow

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Stroker vs Regular 440 build
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2012 - 05:47:22 PM »
that is similar to the mods I make for most street engines , I use the TTI headers as they have better fit & quality & Lunati cams & of course I port the heads , install larger valves on the exhaust side .
 Using modern drag radials & some suspension tweaking I have been able to make decent traction . of course you can blow the tires off at will but given a chance you can hook up hard

Offline HP_Cuda

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Re: Stroker vs Regular 440 build
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2012 - 06:09:44 PM »

Hey Chryco

Does Lunati make a hydraulic roller cam? I didn't see any...

B
1970 Cuda Clone 440 4speed - sublime green
1970 Cuda 383 Hemi 4 speed - yellow

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Stroker vs Regular 440 build
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2012 - 06:45:04 PM »
Yeah call them , they were just developing a whole line of street friendly hyd rollers

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Stroker vs Regular 440 build
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2012 - 10:15:11 PM »
Awesome , I have outrun a number of bikes myself .... always fun !!

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Re: Stroker vs Regular 440 build
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2012 - 10:15:11 PM »