Author Topic: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger  (Read 13329 times)

Offline 06Daytona

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1099
Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
« on: June 01, 2012 - 05:39:40 pm »
I have a friend down here in Puerto Rico who really wants a 70 Challenger but is too impatient to wait for one to come up for sale, and too cheap to pay the million I want for mine.

He ended up picking up a 72 and wants to change it over. I already told him it's going to be huge dollars to do that but he insists on it, and who am I to complain when he wants to get the parts through me. He already knows he's going to need the grille, fender lights, headlight brackets/buckets the tail panel with all the bits and pieces, but he's not sure what else he's going to need for the conversion and neither am I.
I told him he's probably going to have problems finding the headlight buckets unless he can find an old set of fenders which I may have a line on.

If anyone has ever done this, I'd love to hear everything that was needed to make it work. He's stopping by my house tomorrow to show me his list of parts and let me add whatever he's missed.
1972 Cuda 340 4 barrel 4 speed that looks like a 71
2006 Dodge Charger R/T Daytona
2005 Dodge Ram 2500 Diesel 4X4
2006 Chrysler PT Cruiser Convertible (Kidmobile)
1972 Dodge Charger 318 auto
1970 Challenger 440/727 auto
1973 Plymouth Duster 340/auto (Making it Panther Pink for the wife)
2006 Honda Civic Hybrid (It doesn't save gas, it just diverts it to the Cuda/Challenger)
In desperate need of more property for my growing Mopar family




Offline Super Blue 72

  • Permanent Resident
  • *******
  • Posts: 12711
  • "Big 'n Little" Member since 8/9/05
    • Phil's Super Blue '72
Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2012 - 05:44:35 pm »
How "correct" does he want to make it? 

The seats I think are also different.  If you go with the Rallye gauges the '70-71 gauges are different than the '72-'74 gauges unless you get an early '72 that has the earlier style.
1972 Dodge Challenger Rallye 340, AT, Code TB3=Super Blue, SBD=8/17/1971.  Yes, a Rallye without the fender louvers from the factory because of the body side molding option.

Pic #2 and 3 of my ARII 1/24 scale model car 

Phil in New England-Massachusetts  Always thank God for what you have!

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/456046/1972-dodge-challenger

Offline 06Daytona

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1099
Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2012 - 05:57:37 pm »
He's only worried about the outside. He has a 2009 Challenger in dark blue and wants to paint the old one the same color
1972 Cuda 340 4 barrel 4 speed that looks like a 71
2006 Dodge Charger R/T Daytona
2005 Dodge Ram 2500 Diesel 4X4
2006 Chrysler PT Cruiser Convertible (Kidmobile)
1972 Dodge Charger 318 auto
1970 Challenger 440/727 auto
1973 Plymouth Duster 340/auto (Making it Panther Pink for the wife)
2006 Honda Civic Hybrid (It doesn't save gas, it just diverts it to the Cuda/Challenger)
In desperate need of more property for my growing Mopar family

Offline MEK-Dangerfield

  • C-C.com Expert
  • ********
  • Posts: 20946
  • I don't get NO respect! Member since 1/25/2002
Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2012 - 06:26:16 pm »
If he is just worried about outside, the side marker lights are different, both front and rear. The front's will be taken care of if he gets 70 fenders, but I don't know how the rears would work.   :clueless:  Another thing I can think of, the "Challenger" script is on the rear quarter panel of a 72 and on the front fender of a 70.

I'll just assume he is good at welding and body work to pull this off.

Mike

1970 Challenger - SOLD
2016 SXT+.  1 of 524 SXT+'s in Plumb-crazy for 2016.

Offline 06Daytona

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1099
Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2012 - 06:31:08 pm »
Right now he's only worried about getting the car looking like a 70. I don't think he's even started thinking about script and moldings. I told him to pick up a few bottles of tylenol too since I can see this becoming one big headache. I know where there's the back half of a Challenger that I might be able to get the fender light out of, if I don't buy it and turn it into a trailer.
1972 Cuda 340 4 barrel 4 speed that looks like a 71
2006 Dodge Charger R/T Daytona
2005 Dodge Ram 2500 Diesel 4X4
2006 Chrysler PT Cruiser Convertible (Kidmobile)
1972 Dodge Charger 318 auto
1970 Challenger 440/727 auto
1973 Plymouth Duster 340/auto (Making it Panther Pink for the wife)
2006 Honda Civic Hybrid (It doesn't save gas, it just diverts it to the Cuda/Challenger)
In desperate need of more property for my growing Mopar family

Offline Challenger6pak

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 4081
Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2012 - 09:37:09 pm »
I deal with this a lot.  When you figure the cost of buying the 72-74 and converting it you may be able to buy a 70 with the same money and have less work to do the car.  To make it 'look' like a 70 but not be 100% correct on the outside you need several things.  Starting at the rear.  The tail light panel and tail lights are different.  The 70 has a steel bumper filler.  The side marker lights are different (front and rear).  The grille is different.  The headlight bezels are different.  The hood latch is different.  You need good 70 fenders or good 72 fenders and 70 parts fenders to create a good 70 fender for each side of the car.  The hood moulding is different.  You need to move the horns from the hood latch support to the inner fender.  Changing these things will make it look like a 70.  If a Challenger is a 73 or 74 both the front and rear bumpers and brackets will need changed to the 70 style.  To give the inside a 70 look you will need 70 seats, console, dash pad, dash trim, headliner, sunvisors, rear view mirror, and seat belts.  To use the 70 sunvisors the mounting hole needs enlarged in the 72.  The 70 headliner uses different bows and mounts.  These are the main differences.  There are far more differences.  Have your buddy price these parts.  Then have him add it to the cost of the 72.  Then see if you can find a 70 for the same cost. 
1969 Sport Satellite H code convertible, 1970 Cuda 440+6, 1970 Challenger R/T 440+6, 1970 Challenger 383 R/T auto, 1970 Challenger R/T 383 4 speed,1971 Challenger convertible.

Offline ChallengerHK

  • Sr. Resident
  • ******
  • Posts: 7338
  • I'm working on it - No, really
Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2012 - 09:44:46 pm »
If you just do the taillight housings and lenses, rear panel, headlight bezels, grille, and then switch to 70 headlight buckets, it'll look very similar to a 70 except to somebody who knows Mopars and is paying close attention. I gather that he wants it to look like a 70 "at a glance" but not to stand up under scrutiny. This would do that.

Even then, he'd probably do well to drill out the bumper brackets, or get 70 brackets and move the bumpers in to the body.


"She'll make point five past light speed. She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts, and I've made a lot of special modifications myself."

- Han Solo, Star Wars

Advice Thread - Taking Pictures Of Cars

Offline 06Daytona

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1099
Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2012 - 10:34:03 pm »
He's only really interested in the grille and the tail panel. I don't think he's going to care if the fender lights, bumpers etc are wrong, as long as he has the front and back looking rightish. I remember reading somewhere that the header panel needs some chopping for things to work out right. I guess he's going to find out as he goes.
1972 Cuda 340 4 barrel 4 speed that looks like a 71
2006 Dodge Charger R/T Daytona
2005 Dodge Ram 2500 Diesel 4X4
2006 Chrysler PT Cruiser Convertible (Kidmobile)
1972 Dodge Charger 318 auto
1970 Challenger 440/727 auto
1973 Plymouth Duster 340/auto (Making it Panther Pink for the wife)
2006 Honda Civic Hybrid (It doesn't save gas, it just diverts it to the Cuda/Challenger)
In desperate need of more property for my growing Mopar family

Offline ChallengerHK

  • Sr. Resident
  • ******
  • Posts: 7338
  • I'm working on it - No, really
Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2012 - 11:22:34 pm »
72-74 header is fiberglass, and buckets mount to it. 70 buckets mount directly to the fenders. I think that will be his biggest challenge.


"She'll make point five past light speed. She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts, and I've made a lot of special modifications myself."

- Han Solo, Star Wars

Advice Thread - Taking Pictures Of Cars

Offline Challenger6pak

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 4081
Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2012 - 11:55:26 pm »
The 72 bumpers are basically the same as 70.  The 73 & 74 bumpers need moved back.  You will need the bucket assembly that is welded into the 70 fender.  I have done several cars this way and just filled in the side marker lights. 
1969 Sport Satellite H code convertible, 1970 Cuda 440+6, 1970 Challenger R/T 440+6, 1970 Challenger 383 R/T auto, 1970 Challenger R/T 383 4 speed,1971 Challenger convertible.

Offline 06Daytona

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1099
Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2012 - 11:20:52 am »
He stopped by on Saturday with a list of the parts he needs. He seems to have it all figured out although I still think he's going to have troubles and end up with a hack job looking car. He found fibreglass headlight brackets online that I've never seen before and I was wondering if anyone has any experience with them.
1972 Cuda 340 4 barrel 4 speed that looks like a 71
2006 Dodge Charger R/T Daytona
2005 Dodge Ram 2500 Diesel 4X4
2006 Chrysler PT Cruiser Convertible (Kidmobile)
1972 Dodge Charger 318 auto
1970 Challenger 440/727 auto
1973 Plymouth Duster 340/auto (Making it Panther Pink for the wife)
2006 Honda Civic Hybrid (It doesn't save gas, it just diverts it to the Cuda/Challenger)
In desperate need of more property for my growing Mopar family

Offline Challenger6pak

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 4081
Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2012 - 12:06:09 pm »
The 'glass buckets are for 'glass fenders.  It may be trouble in the long run attaching them to steel fenders. He could just use a complete glass front end.
1969 Sport Satellite H code convertible, 1970 Cuda 440+6, 1970 Challenger R/T 440+6, 1970 Challenger 383 R/T auto, 1970 Challenger R/T 383 4 speed,1971 Challenger convertible.

Offline Super Blue 72

  • Permanent Resident
  • *******
  • Posts: 12711
  • "Big 'n Little" Member since 8/9/05
    • Phil's Super Blue '72
Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2012 - 05:08:35 pm »
The 'glass buckets are for 'glass fenders.  It may be trouble in the long run attaching them to steel fenders. He could just use a complete glass front end.

Several years ago on craigslist there was tilt nose '70 Challenger front end, needed a little glass work on the front bumper area. 

No one bought it for $700 so the guy dropped it to $50.  Should have picked it up just for kicks!  :banghead:
1972 Dodge Challenger Rallye 340, AT, Code TB3=Super Blue, SBD=8/17/1971.  Yes, a Rallye without the fender louvers from the factory because of the body side molding option.

Pic #2 and 3 of my ARII 1/24 scale model car 

Phil in New England-Massachusetts  Always thank God for what you have!

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/456046/1972-dodge-challenger

Offline 1970 RT Challenger 1970

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 774
Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2012 - 09:33:29 pm »
It's just like putting Lipstick on a Pig!  :roflsmiley:

It just seems wrong to make a '72 a '70. It's a creation (or abortion!) of something it's not.

Offline 72bluNblu

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1836
Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2012 - 03:38:07 am »
It's just like putting Lipstick on a Pig!  :roflsmiley:

It just seems wrong to make a '72 a '70. It's a creation (or abortion!) of something it's not.


So, that would be about the same as taking one of the TEN THOUSAND slant 6 Challengers they built in 1970 and putting a V8 in it right? Or maybe like putting a big block in a small block car? Gosh, what about all those jerks with '70 Challengers that add R/T or T/A badges! Making it something it's not? They built more Challengers in 1970 than they did in 1972, 73, and 74 COMBINED. Which ones are rare?  :poopoke:



The swap is pretty involved to do it right, even just on a cosmetic level.

The headlight buckets are the biggest issue, since the '72 fenders don't have buckets. Its easier just to get '70/'71 fenders, otherwise you'll have to find buckets. The fiberglass ones are a disaster with metal fenders, as you'll have to use screws or rivets to attach them. Not good.

The grille header panel also has to change, as well as the hood latch support structure, and the hood latch release, since they're designed to work with their corresponding grille.

Then you need the grille itself and the bezels. Also, remember that a '72 has painted hood trim, not chrome, so it won't match the bezels. It also mounts differently to the hood if I remember correctly, so its not quite as easy as buying '70 hood trim and bolting it to the '72 hood. The trim on the front valance is also different.

You can get metal headlight brackets and side marker patches from B/E&A, but I don't know how hard it would be to get them to ship to you where you're at. And they aren't cheap! They want $317 for the buckets. Side marker patches are $49, a little easier to deal with.

http://beaparts.com/default.asp



Also, if your buddy is interested, I have an original set of '70/'71 headlight buckets for a Challenger. I was going to use them to clone my '72 to a '71, but I found a set of fenders instead. Shipping would probably be a pain though. PM me if you're interested though, maybe we can figure something out. They would spot weld into the '72 fenders just like they did on the '70/'71 fenders. 

Then of course there's the tail lights, which requires a whole different tail panel, not to mention the entire tail light assembly. There's a TON of other differences, but just to make the outside look like a '70 is pretty involved. The list of parts to clone my '72 to a '71 so far looks like this

'70/'71 front fenders
'71 Grille
'71 headlight bezels
'71 header panel
'71 hood latch support
'71 hood latch release
'70/'71 hood with latch
'70/'71 side marker quarter panel patches
'71 Rallye gauges with 8k tach
'71 only wide hood trim (no, I didn't need it to make it a '71, but it does look nice!)

I'm sure I'll find some other things when I try to mount that grile in there. Some of my list was a little easier to rationalize- my original fenders have rust in the dog legs, so buying a set of good condition '70/'71 fenders actually made my bodywork easier.

And I'm not swapping the tail panel, because I like the '72-'74 tail lights better. Plus, since my '72 was actually built in 1971 and therefore has a 1971 build date, I want something on the car to keep it from being passed off as a real 1971.