Barracuda Challenger Forum

Author Topic: 440 Cam suggestion  (Read 2204 times)

Offline usraptr

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440 Cam suggestion
« on: January 15, 2011 - 11:30:56 PM »
Okay, I have a '70 'Cuda with a "U" Code matching numbers 440 matched to a stock 4-speed and 4.10 Dana rear.  Engine is rebuilt and was bored 30 over.  Has original crank, rods, flat top pistons and stock heads.  I will be running the stock intake, carb and exhaust manifolds with a Magnaflow 2.5" exhaust system with X pipe.  The car also has power brakes so I'm concerned about making enough vacuum at idle for the brake booster.  Car will be a weekend driver.  I'd like to install a cam that would give it a nice raspy idle with some low end grunt.  I won't be racing it at the strip so I'm not interested in top end.  Any suggestions on a Cam brand, model would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Brad
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda.  Matching numbers 440 U Code, 4 speed pistol grip, Rallye dash, AM 8 Track, Shaker hood, 15 inch rallye wheels, Dana 60 4.10, Super Track Pak.  One of 134 - 440 "U" coupes codes built in 1970 and one of 100 - 440 Super Track Paks built in 1970.

Restoration pictures at:  http://spanks4thememory.smugmug.com/Cars/70-Cuda/7240639_M24oi#465274575_2MBqW

"usraptr" = United States raptor - bird of prey = United States Bald Eagle.  FYI, somebody else thought of it first so I had to drop the "O" in raptor.

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440 Cam suggestion
« on: January 15, 2011 - 11:30:56 PM »



Offline mopar12372

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Re: 440 Cam suggestion
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2011 - 12:56:01 AM »
i believe this cam will wake up that  engine  with out disturbeing the stock accessories.
 http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=1579&gid=287
MOPARTECH.NET ( come over and visit some time )
RESTO PICTURES
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=71096.30

Offline usraptr

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Re: 440 Cam suggestion
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2011 - 02:10:42 PM »
Thanks Mopar12372.  That sounds like a good fit for what I need.  Chryco Psycho do you have any other suggestions?

Thanks again,
Brad
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda.  Matching numbers 440 U Code, 4 speed pistol grip, Rallye dash, AM 8 Track, Shaker hood, 15 inch rallye wheels, Dana 60 4.10, Super Track Pak.  One of 134 - 440 "U" coupes codes built in 1970 and one of 100 - 440 Super Track Paks built in 1970.

Restoration pictures at:  http://spanks4thememory.smugmug.com/Cars/70-Cuda/7240639_M24oi#465274575_2MBqW

"usraptr" = United States raptor - bird of prey = United States Bald Eagle.  FYI, somebody else thought of it first so I had to drop the "O" in raptor.

Offline MizzouRT

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Re: 440 Cam suggestion
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2011 - 07:43:21 PM »
It sounds like everything else is stock, including heads and pistons with about 9.7 compression?

If you are running stock, unported heads, you may want to run the old MP 280/0.474" cam.  I don't have any personal experience with the faster ramping, higher lift cams, but seems clear they will easily make more peak horsepower with ported or aluminum heads that the 280/474.  However, if you are running the stock heads then I'm not sure the extra lift is going to give you much more power, as the stock heads are nearly maxed out at 0.474" lift.  You are getting about 98% of the maximum intake flow and around 97% of the maximim exhaust flow by then with stock heads. 

In any case, higher lifts in less time (less duration = less time) means your valve train has to work considerably harder.  Hopefully others running these cams can chime in on what their expected refresh cycles are.  With the 280/.474 cam you are going to need to refresh the rings long before you ever need to worry about your valve train. 

As for street manners, back in the seventies I ran this cam in a 70 Charger as a daily driver with ps, pb, ac, auto & 3.23 gears.  It did have an entry level B&M converter, although the 383 converter would've been OK.  It was an 8.2:1 440 Magnum stock with 780 Holley, Torker & headers.  It ran strong from 2000-5000 rpm with crisp throttle response, decent fuel economy and impeccable street manners.  Never any vacuum problems.  Never left me walking.  Average low temp in January was 18* F, so it started many a day in single digit temps after sitting outside overnight.  It would start right up, give it a little gas for about 30 seconds, then go back inside while it warmed up.  It would idle all day without loading up.  I idled around town a lot, and changed plugs every 6 months but they really didn't need it that often.

My brother ran the same cam in a 73 440 Charger with 4 speed.  Between the two of us, must've put over 70,000 street miles on that cam.  It is not a good choice at the strip, especially if you have ported or aluminum heads, simply not enough lift.  But it was always a pleasure to drive, required zero maintenance, and  has a nice sound.  That might be what you are looking for.  Here is a link to what the cam sounds like in a 440 with open headers.  Yes, it has some rumble, but note how well behaved the idle is even at first start up before the car has been tuned.








Daily Driver: 2013 Challenger SRT 6 speed
Toy: 1970 Challenger

Offline mopar12372

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Re: 440 Cam suggestion
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2011 - 09:37:29 PM »
 sorry i need to read before i type sometimes i get all wound up makeing mopars fast. from what i read you have a stock setup with the y pipe  if you dont want to change anything ---->if you go any bigger power will be lost because your Volumetric efficiency  is low (no headers intake ect ) .

 this is the cam i would use if i was running your setup.

http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=1578&gid=287
« Last Edit: January 19, 2011 - 09:51:00 PM by mopar12372 »
MOPARTECH.NET ( come over and visit some time )
RESTO PICTURES
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=71096.30

Offline MizzouRT

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Re: 440 Cam suggestion
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2011 - 11:23:50 PM »
I'd like to install a cam that would give it a nice raspy idle with some low end grunt.  I won't be racing it at the strip so I'm not interested in top end... 

I have not heard a 440 running the Lunati 60302 cam, but looking at the specs it appears to be as mild or possibly even milder than the stock "Magnum" cam you already have.  The 60302 has lots of lift, but not much duration.  You may be disappointed with a cam swap that results in a smoother-than-stock idle?  Before going with the 60302 you might want to hear one running.

The MP 280*/0.474" lift cam is a milder version (P4452993) of the original street hemi cam with improved idle.  Faster ramping, higher lift cams like the Lunati 60303 will give you an extra 600 rpms and around 10-15 more horsepower IF you have a bigger carb, intake, ported or aftermarket heads & headers.  Again, with the stock heads, there is no reason to lift past 0.474", the extra strain on the valve train isn't buying you any extra horsepower.  If anything, lower lift should modestly improve power and torque at low engine speeds.

Here is a quote from Chryco on the 280/0.474 cam and he does a great job of summarizing the pros & cons:

"I generally have found power gains with the newer fast ramp higher lift grinds like the VooDoo & Engle but I always port the heads which takes advantage of the higher valve lift.   The Mopar 474 lift cam is very similar to the old .471 Hemi grind , I had that cam in my 340 Cuda & it screamed but was dead around 5800 rpm."
 
See graphs showing flow on stock 440 and Edelbrock RPM Performer heads.  With the better heads, more lift is worth reaching for if you want to make as much power as possible.

Also see table with an overview of cam stats, note how the stock "Magnum" cam has more duration than the Lunati 60302.  Not sure that is what you are looking for...
Daily Driver: 2013 Challenger SRT 6 speed
Toy: 1970 Challenger

Offline usraptr

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Re: 440 Cam suggestion
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2011 - 05:08:19 PM »
MizzouRt and Mopar 12372, once again thank you for the information.  It will be very helpful in making a final decision.  MizzouRT can you direct me to the post by Chryco that you referenced?

Thanks again,

Brad
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda.  Matching numbers 440 U Code, 4 speed pistol grip, Rallye dash, AM 8 Track, Shaker hood, 15 inch rallye wheels, Dana 60 4.10, Super Track Pak.  One of 134 - 440 "U" coupes codes built in 1970 and one of 100 - 440 Super Track Paks built in 1970.

Restoration pictures at:  http://spanks4thememory.smugmug.com/Cars/70-Cuda/7240639_M24oi#465274575_2MBqW

"usraptr" = United States raptor - bird of prey = United States Bald Eagle.  FYI, somebody else thought of it first so I had to drop the "O" in raptor.

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: 440 Cam suggestion
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2011 - 01:14:32 AM »
I use the Lunati grinds because they open the valve faster , which helps even if the lift is above where the ports flow , generally the ports should be effective up to .500 lift without porting , most of the valve lifts are close to .500 with hyd cams , it is the effect of the valve opening [under the curve] which allows the valve duration to be less & the idle quality to improve & still increase the flow & performance .
Bottom line is I would use the 60303 or 60302 cam   

Offline usraptr

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Re: 440 Cam suggestion
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2011 - 03:44:56 PM »
Thanks Chryco.  Your advise is much appreciated, as always.   :2thumbs:

Brad
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda.  Matching numbers 440 U Code, 4 speed pistol grip, Rallye dash, AM 8 Track, Shaker hood, 15 inch rallye wheels, Dana 60 4.10, Super Track Pak.  One of 134 - 440 "U" coupes codes built in 1970 and one of 100 - 440 Super Track Paks built in 1970.

Restoration pictures at:  http://spanks4thememory.smugmug.com/Cars/70-Cuda/7240639_M24oi#465274575_2MBqW

"usraptr" = United States raptor - bird of prey = United States Bald Eagle.  FYI, somebody else thought of it first so I had to drop the "O" in raptor.

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: 440 Cam suggestion
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2011 - 01:05:02 AM »
You are welcome !
 I tried to reply a few times but I have very limited internet access up here until March

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Re: 440 Cam suggestion
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2011 - 01:05:02 AM »