Author Topic: Using C-Body spindles on an E-Body ( and A-Body LCA's & Viper calipers)  (Read 74944 times)

Offline brads70

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Re: Using C-Body spindles on an E-Body
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2011 - 08:12:45 am »
I thought the A-Body spindles were the same as E-Body?
I would think ( but am not positive) that the adjust-ability of the Hotchkis upper control arm would allow the camber setting with pretty much any spindle. One thing to watch when you install the Hotchkis upper is to cycle it through up and down before you attach it to the spindle to make sure it hits the rubber stopper. I found it it hit the frame rail in one spot before it hit the rubber bumper. Not a big deal 2 seconds with a carbide burr and it was fixed. It hit under the new pivot that they give you to lower the one side. With the taller spindle I'm not sure if it would ever hit the rubber anyhow, but better safe than sorry!
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
 My handling upgrade post
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Offline 72bluNblu

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Re: Using C-Body spindles on an E-Body
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2011 - 03:20:33 pm »
I thought the A-Body spindles were the same as E-Body?
I would think ( but am not positive) that the adjust-ability of the Hotchkis upper control arm would allow the camber setting with pretty much any spindle. One thing to watch when you install the Hotchkis upper is to cycle it through up and down before you attach it to the spindle to make sure it hits the rubber stopper. I found it it hit the frame rail in one spot before it hit the rubber bumper. Not a big deal 2 seconds with a carbide burr and it was fixed. It hit under the new pivot that they give you to lower the one side. With the taller spindle I'm not sure if it would ever hit the rubber anyhow, but better safe than sorry!

I believe that the '73 up A body spindles are the same as the E-body's. But I don't think that the UCA's are the same, so I'm not sure that helps any. I would think that you're right though, between the adjustable UCA and the stock adjustment you should be able to correct it, especially given that we're shooting to have some negative camber anyway.

I'll make sure I take a look at the bumpers, with my current "U" shaped UCA's they don't hit the bumper or the frame.

Offline mopar12372

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Re: Using C-Body spindles on an E-Body
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2011 - 09:08:37 pm »
73 and up a body spindles are the same .
upper control arms different .
fyi :2thumbs:
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Offline HP2

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Re: Using C-Body spindles on an E-Body
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2011 - 09:26:42 pm »
FYI, I dug up my old kit car catalog this past weekend.

They list the standard shortrack spindle as P4007846 and 47 as Rt and Lt respectively. Disc is P3690910. The Grand National spindles are P4007302 and 03 as Rt and Lt and P4007333 is the disc.

Other tid bits of info; the standard kit car rotor used 3580892 inner and 3580888 outer wheel bearings, 2298534 upper ball joint and P3722512/P2835911 lwr ball joints. Interestingly enough, P4007773 ball joint repair kit was also available. Other service items such as seals, dust cap, pins, bolts all had standard service part numbers. All the corresponding parts in the Grand National set up had P prefix on all of them.

I haven't dug up my Hollander yet to see what, if any, changeovers I could even relate to those since Chrysler uses the P prefix on all performance parts and those tended to be seperate from regular service parts.

Kit Car T-Bars ranged from 1.06 to 1.38 at 654# of wheel rate. I'm real curious about what the sockets those anchored in looked like. The rear unit was an indexable kit that could be set up with a cockpit adjustable ride height provision.

Offline brads70

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Re: Using C-Body spindles on an E-Body
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2011 - 10:48:12 pm »
FYI, I dug up my old kit car catalog this past weekend.

They list the standard shortrack spindle as P4007846 and 47 as Rt and Lt respectively. Disc is P3690910. The Grand National spindles are P4007302 and 03 as Rt and Lt and P4007333 is the disc.

Other tid bits of info; the standard kit car rotor used 3580892 inner and 3580888 outer wheel bearings, 2298534 upper ball joint and P3722512/P2835911 lwr ball joints. Interestingly enough, P4007773 ball joint repair kit was also available. Other service items such as seals, dust cap, pins, bolts all had standard service part numbers. All the corresponding parts in the Grand National set up had P prefix on all of them.

I haven't dug up my Hollander yet to see what, if any, changeovers I could even relate to those since Chrysler uses the P prefix on all performance parts and those tended to be seperate from regular service parts.

Kit Car T-Bars ranged from 1.06 to 1.38 at 654# of wheel rate. I'm real curious about what the sockets those anchored in looked like. The rear unit was an indexable kit that could be set up with a cockpit adjustable ride height provision.
Cool! :cooldancing: Are the short track spindles and ball joints stock stuff? Do those numbers trace back to stock parts? I was under the impression it was a 73 C-Body? I'd like to learn all I can about the Kit car set up. Maybe start another post about Kit car info? Maybe other members have some info too? Ya never know what might turn up?
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
 My handling upgrade post
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0

Offline Aussie Challenger

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Re: Using C-Body spindles on an E-Body
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2011 - 06:29:31 am »
I'm watching this with interest also, having both control arms parallel with each other is a definite advantage as movement will pull the top of the spindle in giving more negative camber which aids cornering.   :2thumbs:  The lower control arm would then as mentioned need to be longer to put back some of the positive camber lost. Do all lower control arms interchange, that is will any body type, A. B. C. etc fit our E bodies?   :dunno:
Dave

Offline HP2

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Re: Using C-Body spindles on an E-Body
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2011 - 11:36:47 am »
The short track parts may be C body pieces or may be very similar to them. They certainly use some stock service parts, but whether Chrysler created a new P part number for the C body spindle is somewhat doubtful. It is possible that they were identical except for the 1" drop. That would explain why it uses C body service parts but is a unique P part number and would support the info you got from moparchat. I don't know at the moment. Getting info on kit car stuff is harder than researching Hemi Cuda info because there were fewer made and racers by nature tend to be pretty secretive about what they do have. I seem to recall reading somewhere that only around 700 kit car packages were ever built.

Is there a direct interchange between all the lower arms, no. Can they be adapted, sure. A body arms can use B/E pins to bolt to B/E chassis. Not sure about C body arms. There also are the late B arms which Firm Feel mocked up in a pretty trick set up last summer. Mopar arms by design create negative camber gain through their travel. How much you actually need depends on how much body roll you generate and how much banking your cornering on. More roll,you need more gain. Less banking, you need more gain. So a softly sprung car on the street needs more camber gain than a highly sprung car running on a banked oval. A road racer would be somewhere between the two.

Offline brads70

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Re: Using C-Body spindles on an E-Body
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2011 - 08:04:06 pm »
The 1.12" bars I have are 30* offset, like stock. The only 0 offset bars I ever heard of were made by Just Suspension a few years ago, but they stopped making them. I think they were 1.06? Anyway, mine came from Firm Feel and I'm almost positive they have the stock offset. One of the bars was stamped with a "L", but it was only at one end, and as I've mentioned before it must be the end I put in the LCA, since neither visible end is marked. So, yeah, it is possible I messed it up.

I thought of you today.......

I just got off the phone with Firm Feel. ( I ordered a set of grease-able pivot pins and bushings, for the A-Body LCA's I have coming) while I had him on the phone I asked about the clocking of the 1.060" bars.( future upgrade?  :-\ ) He said they make there own to get the clocking right so it can be adjusted. They are not the stock 30 Degrees but not parallel either ( the hex ends) somewhere in between he told me?
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
 My handling upgrade post
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0

Offline 72bluNblu

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Re: Using C-Body spindles on an E-Body
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2011 - 11:31:26 pm »
I thought of you today.......

I just got off the phone with Firm Feel. ( I ordered a set of grease-able pivot pins and bushings, for the A-Body LCA's I have coming) while I had him on the phone I asked about the clocking of the 1.060" bars.( future upgrade?  :-\ ) He said they make there own to get the clocking right so it can be adjusted. They are not the stock 30 Degrees but not parallel either ( the hex ends) somewhere in between he told me?

Gee, thanks Brad!  ;D

I'm really beginning to think that I flipped those bars. Especially if they aren't 30* offset bars. I knew they made the bars in house, but I thought they were still 30* offset. I know I asked if they were 0 offset bars (which they aren't), but I guess I assumed they were either 0 or 30*, didn't figure on a custom offset. Maybe this weekend I'll have to pull one and check it out. Too bad they were only marked on one end, and that I naively managed to put that end in the lca. Live and learn.

Offline mopar12372

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Re: Using C-Body spindles on an E-Body
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2011 - 11:59:38 pm »
do the torsion bars have to be installed a special way? i know theres a left and a right .
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Offline 72bluNblu

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Re: Using C-Body spindles on an E-Body
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2011 - 12:22:16 am »
do the torsion bars have to be installed a special way? i know theres a left and a right .

There's a left and right. No front or back though. The problem is not all the aftermarket bars are marked at both ends, and only one end is visible once installed. Needless to say, the smart thing to do is install them so the markings are visible once installed. I got in a hurry, and was installing my first set of torsion bars, so I learned a few lessons.

Offline mopar12372

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Re: Using C-Body spindles on an E-Body
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2011 - 12:29:26 am »
is there a preload or are they installed then adjusted to ride height?
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Offline 72bluNblu

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Re: Using C-Body spindles on an E-Body
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2011 - 01:02:02 am »
is there a preload or are they installed then adjusted to ride height?

The preload comes from the offset of the bar and its spring rate, it doesn't change with the ride height. Which is one of the big advantages to torsion bars, since the ride height can be easily changed.

Offline mopar12372

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Re: Using C-Body spindles on an E-Body
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2011 - 02:00:33 am »
oh ok , thanks :2thumbs:
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Offline brads70

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Re: Using C-Body spindles on an E-Body
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2011 - 01:24:50 pm »
Just a small update, got grease-able LCA pins and poly bushings from firm feel. Thought someone might like to see a picture of them? I machined a grease groove 360 degrees so the grease gets into all the "splines" of the bushing. I installed them into the A-Body LCA's today, still waiting on rotors. They are at my in-laws in PA , heading down next month so I'll pick them up then. Sort of stuck without them. I made my own adjustable strut rods too.


Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
 My handling upgrade post
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0