72bluNblu Looks like a strong part! With me having 15" rims I wonder if it would cause issues with the outer tie rod end hitting the rim? I can't figure out what it does to the upper control arm? Raise it ( at the ball joint)? or lower it? or it stays the same?
I'm just thinking that I'm gonna have my front end all apart installing the Hotchkis stuff, so that would be the time to do it, if it's a good "upgrade" for me? I don't mind the height my car is at ,it clears speed bumps, headers are not dragging, etc... I don't want to create issues ? I'm up for lowering it "some" I just don't want issues with clearance. I can't see lowering it 2" though? As I said the t-bar adjusters are hanging out pretty good with the 1" t-bars. I'm sure when/if Boydsdodge reads this he will "give me the gears" about the height on my car though!
I still have 15" rims on my car, no issues with hitting the rims. But the rims that are on my car don't have much backspace either, so your results may vary. If you have a big offset, it could create an interference problem.
The spindles are an awesome part, well designed and made. If that's what you're after, then Magnumforce also makes a standard height spindle out of the same improved material and casting.
The big question for you is, will there be enough torsion bar adjustment to keep your car at the same height with the 2" drop spindles? My guess, based on what I see with my 1.12" bars, is yes, you will have plenty
of adjustment. Even with the drop spindles, my adjusters are nearly all the way out still.
I'm not entirely sure why my car is like that, or if the 1.12" FFI bars I have are really that stiff. I recently raised my car up half a turn, I got tired of banging my headers on speed bumps.
As far as what the spindle does to the upper control arm- If you look at the pictures of the stock spindle vs the magnumforce spindle, you can see that the actual spindle, the part that is the wheel axis, moves 2" closer to the UCA. Now, as you lower the car, the control arms (both of them) change angle. The pivot location (at the frame) moves closer to the ground. The ball joint doesn't move (because the tire doesn't), so the angle the control arms sit at changes. On most of these cars, the control arms slope down from the frame toward the ground. In an extreme example, if you lowered the crap out of it, your control arms could become parallel with the ground (like HP2 said his LCA's are
). Now, if you put drop spindles on the same car, and kept it at the same ride height, 2" of the drop would move from the control arms to the spindle, allowing the control arms to regain a more normal angle. Which, in theory, should work better, since it would allow them to be closer to the "designed" angle.
Like so.... (NOT to scale!). First picture is stock, second picture would be lowered 2", third is lowered 2" with drop spindles.
This is when it would be nice to have a software program to play with.
Yes it would!!! I used to have one, but it resides on a floppy disk and only runs in DOS.
Not sure I could make that happen anymore...
IMO, the dropping of COG height has a bigger impact on improving things than the alterations to geometry will make in either better or worse geometry. For a street car, these changes are so minor, overall things will feel better, even if the geometry is worse.
This is exactly my experience. Lowering the car was a huge improvement. Whether or not the geometry is actually "better", I don't know. But my guess is you're right on, the small geometry change is outweighed by the COG change.
Some background info.; all my calculations come from measurements on my car, which is lowered to a point that the lower control arms are level. These dimension can change from car to car depending on such simple things as tire height, sidewall height, and wheel backspace.
Maybe since 72b&b has the drop spindles installed, he could provide some measurement insight to where his control arms are located with the drop spindles.
Would love to, but its actually raining here in CA, and my car is outside. Maybe in a day or two?
. I can tell you that my LCA's are not parallel with the ground though. And even lowered to where my headers would bang on every speed bump in the area unless I took them at 45 degrees and at 5 mph, that was still the case. I couldn't even get a standard floor jack under my K-member. My signature picture shows the old ride height, I had about 1/2" an inch of tire above my wheel arch. Currently, the top of the tires are level with the wheel arch and the arch is 24.5" off the ground inline with the hub. Tires are 225/60/15's, should be about 25.5" tall, guess there's about an inch of sag and tire wear.