Author Topic: 440 Build Starts Today!  (Read 48807 times)

Offline RDF

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1840
  • The pain that greets me is the stick that beats me
440 Build Starts Today!
« on: June 02, 2008 - 09:18:30 am »
Well I finally got in touch with the guy who I want to build my motor and we're ready to start building my 440.  His name is Vic Ferra and he's comes highly recommended by a neighbor who's known him for a long time and had a 440 built by him recently.  I'm not looking to race it or anything, but I still want to have fun roasting the tires  :burnout: and beating most cars from red light to red light.  I will try to keep this thread updated with links and cost to everything that I'm putting into this motor.  My budget is around 4k, and I say 'around' because I'm not set in stone on that figure and if I see the value in spending more for something than I originally planned, then I'll do it if time and money allow.

Vic and I spoke in detail on the phone for a while last week and I think we've come to an agreement on stroking the motor to either a 493 or 499. There's not much $$ difference between the 2 so I am planning on going with the 499 stroker kit/rotating assembly.  I've got 902 heads but he recommended using 452 (I think?) heads, which he says he's got a bunch and would do some small work to open the ports a bit and get a bigger valve in them. 

I've informed Vic that I'm not the most informed about 'what to get and how to do it right' when it comes to motors so I'll be relying on the nice people here at cc.com and his experience to guide me.  One of the greatest things about Vic is he's not someone who rushes you to finish just to get his $$.  I've informed him that this build may take some time and he's ok with that.

Thoughts and comments/suggestioned always welcome.

Here's what I've got to work with now (see pics below).  ALL of the old items will be sold so if anyone sees anything they need from the motor, let me know.



Bob

1973 'Cuda

If we never drown we'll never know how well it tastes....So tell me how it tastes and I'll know just how well you drowned.

My build:
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=45749.0




Offline Chryco Psycho

  • Administrator
  • C-C.com Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 36619
  • 70 Challenger R/T SE 70 tube Chassis Cuda now sold
Re: 440 Build Starts Today!
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2008 - 09:28:39 am »
Very Cool

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline Stacked440

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1026
Re: 440 Build Starts Today!
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2008 - 01:26:50 am »
In the words of Hannibal from the A-team "I love it when a plan comes together!"
-Kyle-
1971 Challenger R/T clone 440/5-spd
1973 Duster - 5.7L Hemi swap project

Offline RDF

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1840
  • The pain that greets me is the stick that beats me
Re: 440 Build Starts Today!
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2008 - 09:50:51 pm »
Well I just dropped the block off to Vic this morning.  He says it looks like it's in great shape.  He's going to try to hone (sp?) the worst cylinder to see if the rust will come out (there's nominal rust in a couple of the cylinders after a rough bore of .025).  He's pretty confidant that it will, he told me not to be concerned about it.  Once that's done, he's got a set of 452 heads that he'll do some minor work on and get those set.  Hopefully by the time he's done with that, I'll have the $$$ for the 499 rotating assembly, hopefully.  :cooldancing:
Bob

1973 'Cuda

If we never drown we'll never know how well it tastes....So tell me how it tastes and I'll know just how well you drowned.

My build:
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=45749.0

Offline GoodysGotaCuda

  • Sr. Resident
  • ******
  • Posts: 5392
Re: 440 Build Starts Today!
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2008 - 09:57:19 pm »
good luck with it bob! i'd look into the pros/cons on the longer strokes. Longevity may be a concern with the big stroke of the 499.
Build Page: Goody's 'Cuda Build Page
1976 Dodge Warlock
1972 Barracuda - 5.7 Hemi + T56 Magnum

Wheel & Tire Specs:Link

Offline RDF

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1840
  • The pain that greets me is the stick that beats me
Re: 440 Build Starts Today!
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2008 - 10:00:54 pm »
Good idea Mike....I'll take a sneak peak into that.  Anyone know off hand?

BTW, I've got all the lines in for my line-lock, I'm ready when you are......do you guys still need someone to photo-shoot your cars too?  :picture:
Bob

1973 'Cuda

If we never drown we'll never know how well it tastes....So tell me how it tastes and I'll know just how well you drowned.

My build:
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=45749.0

nivvy

  • Guest
Re: 440 Build Starts Today!
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2008 - 10:03:31 pm »
good luck with it bob! i'd look into the pros/cons on the longer strokes. Longevity may be a concern with the big stroke of the 499.

Just my 2 cents but I dont care about longevity.... thats like buying a hummer and worrying about gas mileage. they dont go hand in hand... a 499 you have to deal with whatever but all the more we drive our cars it will be a long while before pulling the motor...  :2cents:

However to answer goody's question 7.100 rod....

Offline RDF

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1840
  • The pain that greets me is the stick that beats me
Re: 440 Build Starts Today!
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2008 - 10:07:20 pm »
yeah, here's what I found after a quick google search (gotta love Google)

http://www3.sympatico.ca/big-d/polytek.htm

STROKERS, PROS AND CONS
What are the advantages of a longer stroke?
Are they real or just hype?
These questions are often asked but the answers are not always as straight forward as we might like.
It is generally thought that the ideal bore stroke ratio is 90%. That means that the stroke should be 90% of the bore. This combination gives a reasonable amount of piston travel per degrees of rotation without being excessive. It also allows the bore to be large enough to carry valves of sufficient size to properly feed the engine. A Hemi, because of its inclined valves, can cheat this a bit but in a wedge it is a severe limitation. If the 90% rule is followed then all should be well. To properly understand this, one should ask, "Are there any disandvantages to a short stroke?"(Looking at the opposite problem will often clarify a point) The answer is yes. A short stoke motor requires a high dome to obtain a high compression ratio which comes with its own set of problems. Sometime the dome is so high that flame travel in the cylinder suffers. The piston does not move away from TDC as far (travels a shorter distance per degrees of rotation) so it may be plagued with valve to piston clearance problems that will be difficult (but surmountable) at best. It will have to operate at higher RPM to obtain the same HP because it will be smaller in cubic inches than say the 90% motor. RPM is expensive. Valves ,valve springs, cams, retainers , pushrods etc etc must be of the very best (read expensive) quality to survive this. If the engine is only making the same HP as the larger one can at a lower RPM, then all one has accomplished is to build a difficult ,expensive, high maintainence "gernade". However, the same problem exists at the other end of the scale. If the stroke is too long then the cylinder heads cannot keep up with the sheer volume of air being pumped . Often a stroker will produce the same power but at a lower RPM. Is this because of the torque characteristics of the long stroke, as some would suggest, or is it because the cylinder heads have reached their peak at a lower RPM than would have happened on a stock stroke engine? In many cases the latter is true. Also in a long stroke engine the rods are stressed as piston speed in feet per minute increases to the danger point. Even a high dollar engine with the very best parts will require constant replacement if pushed to those limits. The best reason to built a stroker is because you want one. What are the guidelines?  Like we said at the start. Stroke should be 90% of the bore and no more. This is not the total sum of the story, by any means, but these are some of the things worth thinking about before you part with your gold.


So, if it's bored .030, what's 90%?
Bob

1973 'Cuda

If we never drown we'll never know how well it tastes....So tell me how it tastes and I'll know just how well you drowned.

My build:
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=45749.0

Offline GoodysGotaCuda

  • Sr. Resident
  • ******
  • Posts: 5392
Re: 440 Build Starts Today!
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2008 - 10:23:51 pm »
Just my 2 cents but I dont care about longevity.... thats like buying a hummer and worrying about gas mileage. they dont go hand in hand... a 499 you have to deal with whatever but all the more we drive our cars it will be a long while before pulling the motor...  :2cents:

However to answer goody's question 7.100 rod....

Just my 2cents on that is, everyones situation is different. Funds and budgeting come into play, i'm with you as far engines go to a certain extent. Your Challenger's budget seems to grow by the minute! lol.  Just trying to make sure Bob knows and understands every angle of what he is looking to do before he dives into it. I'm not a pro in the world of strokers, but i have heard about rod-ratio and longevity issues down the road with running a big inch stroker..just stickin it out there!  :wave: :cheers:

Bob I'm not sure what we're up to as far as the pictures go. We're gettin kinda to the wire here soon and no real locations on hand unfortuneately. Thats the big hang up at the moment!
Build Page: Goody's 'Cuda Build Page
1976 Dodge Warlock
1972 Barracuda - 5.7 Hemi + T56 Magnum

Wheel & Tire Specs:Link

nivvy

  • Guest
Re: 440 Build Starts Today!
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2008 - 04:58:25 pm »
Nothing else to spend my money on.... playing race car is fun......  :money:

nivvy

  • Guest
Re: 440 Build Starts Today!
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2008 - 04:59:55 pm »
yeah, here's what I found after a quick google search (gotta love Google)

http://www3.sympatico.ca/big-d/polytek.htm


So, if it's bored .030, what's 90%?


I think what they are refering to is @ .30 over your bore is 4.350 so a 4.150 stroker crank would be a little over 90%  4.350 stroker crank would be 100% .... make sense

« Last Edit: June 08, 2008 - 05:04:07 pm by StRoKer »

Offline GoodysGotaCuda

  • Sr. Resident
  • ******
  • Posts: 5392
Re: 440 Build Starts Today!
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2008 - 08:05:35 pm »
Nothing else to spend my money on.... playing race car is fun......  :money:

I'm sure right after you bought the 'last' three parts for that engine, you said 'thats it!'....riiiiiiiiiight? lol
Build Page: Goody's 'Cuda Build Page
1976 Dodge Warlock
1972 Barracuda - 5.7 Hemi + T56 Magnum

Wheel & Tire Specs:Link

nivvy

  • Guest
Re: 440 Build Starts Today!
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2008 - 08:10:38 pm »
I'm sure right after you bought the 'last' three parts for that engine, you said 'thats it!'....riiiiiiiiiight? lol

nope....... dont ever think about it actually ......  :working:

Offline tactransman

  • Sr. Resident
  • ******
  • Posts: 5401
  • 1973 Challenger- Member here since April 14, 2006
Re: 440 Build Starts Today!
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2008 - 12:41:38 pm »
  Hey Robert!  :wave:
Terry-tactransman 
Torqueflite/Automatic Transmission Specialist
Union, Mo.
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day,teach him to fish and he eats for a lifetime.

Offline ViperMan

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 3989
  • 2017 Carlisle or BUST...
    • JS Custom Cars
Re: 440 Build Starts Today!
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2008 - 03:49:16 pm »
Yeah but a good handful of previous posts stated that running all the way up to the 512 kit (with a .060-over bore) wouldn't create any longevity issues.  That's why I'm planning a 505 (with a .030-over bore) for my 440.

I'm with you RDF - With the new job going well, I'm getting ready to hand over my block for boring and honing.  It'll have to be stored until I'm situated in Indiana, but then I should be able to get a permanent roof over the 'Cuda and REALLY get to work.

Hope it goes well.

Jeff
2000 Dodge Viper GTS Coupe - 8.0L V10, 6-Speed Tremec
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited - Trail Rated - 4.7L V8, Auto
2010 Dodge Challenger SE Rallye - 3.5L V6, Auto (Wife's!)