Author Topic: 70 Cuda fenders (original steel)  (Read 925 times)

Offline john h

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70 Cuda fenders (original steel)
« on: March 05, 2020 - 06:24:31 pm »
Hi All.
Some background and then my question. In 1987 (I was 16 years old) I bought some barracuda fenders at a swap meet to replace my very rusted 1973 Cuda fenders. I had no clue what the differences were in E body cars except knowing chall vs Cuda. The person I bought from thought they were 1970 because they had the longer inset marker light vs the outset block marker light on the 72-74 cudas and only 1 headlight bucket. No Gills. 2 years later I had them mounted at a now out of business body shop along with some new quarters grafted on. 1 year later I had the bodywork finished, paint and the assembly done by a different shop, also now out of business. The 73 grill never fit very well. it does not seem to get all the way to the sides of the fenders and trim rings don't line up with the headlights. I was out of money and time going to school, getting married and starting a family. Fast forward 30+ years... I'm trying to figure out the differences in the fenders to figure out if I can ever get my grill to fit properly. I know the side marker lights are different but I can live with that. I'm trying to figure out if I should buy new re-pop 72-74 fenders or look for OE fenders Used of course or just try to make what I have work. The current fenders are painted to match the rest of the car and also have my preferred stripe, not the 73 Stripe. all of that would have to be re-done and since the paint job is 30+ the whole car should be prepped and re-worked. what are peoples thought on this? what are good 1970 used fenders worth if I buy new and sell what I have? is it worth trying to trade for the correct fenders? I'll update this post later with a pick of the grill fitment.

Thanks in advance.
John
John
73 Cuda
360 Crate motor
FiTech Fuel injection
727 Trans (wishing it had Over Drive)




Offline 70chall440

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Re: 70 Cuda fenders (original steel)
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2020 - 09:36:29 pm »
So if I understand you correct, this issue is due to the bad fitment of the grille to the fenders you currently have?

IMO I guess you could go either way but I tend to lean towards right year right car type solution generally. That said, there is no guarantee that different fenders are going to improve this situation I don't think but not seeing the car I couldn't say forsure. 
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline john h

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Re: 70 Cuda fenders (original steel)
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2020 - 09:19:48 pm »
So if I understand you correct, this issue is due to the bad fitment of the grille to the fenders you currently have?

IMO I guess you could go either way but I tend to lean towards right year right car type solution generally. That said, there is no guarantee that different fenders are going to improve this situation I don't think but not seeing the car I couldn't say for sure.
yes, that is the issue I'm trying to decide how to best deal with.  I will post a picture if I can make it smaller.  I have been reading your post abut transforming your 73 Cuda into a road racing Cuda and I recently got to the pictures of how the re-pop fenders fit the top of the door. I would not have any ability to deal with that on my own.  I'm wondering if the headlight buckets on the 70 year fenders are mounted further outboard than on the the 72-74 model years.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2020 - 09:22:49 pm by john h »
John
73 Cuda
360 Crate motor
FiTech Fuel injection
727 Trans (wishing it had Over Drive)

Offline john h

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Re: 70 Cuda fenders (original steel)
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2020 - 09:34:40 pm »
pics added.
John
73 Cuda
360 Crate motor
FiTech Fuel injection
727 Trans (wishing it had Over Drive)

Offline 70chall440

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Re: 70 Cuda fenders (original steel)
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2020 - 11:06:53 pm »
Alright, I had to pull the pictures and look at them beside the front of my car in order to really get a sense of what you were saying. Out of curiosity, was the front valance ever damaged and repaired? I am wondering if the lower valance is pushing the bottoms of the fenders out some? That said, I personally do not think that the fit is all that horrible but if it bothers you then I understand.

An option I would suggest is to remove the lower valance, see if the bottoms of the fenders can come in some and if that helps the fitment, doesn't cost you anything but time. Other than that I am not sure what to tell you and to be honest I am not sure if new fenders will help or not, they might but they might not if there is something going on with the front of the car (not saying there is).

I resized the pictures for you.

Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline john h

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Re: 70 Cuda fenders (original steel)
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2020 - 03:56:09 pm »
Alright, I had to pull the pictures and look at them beside the front of my car in order to really get a sense of what you were saying. Out of curiosity, was the front valance ever damaged and repaired? I am wondering if the lower valance is pushing the bottoms of the fenders out some? That said, I personally do not think that the fit is all that horrible but if it bothers you then I understand.

An option I would suggest is to remove the lower valance, see if the bottoms of the fenders can come in some and if that helps the fitment, doesn't cost you anything but time. Other than that I am not sure what to tell you and to be honest I am not sure if new fenders will help or not, they might but they might not if there is something going on with the front of the car (not saying there is).

I resized the pictures for you.
The lower valance is original to the car as far as I know.  I did not get the car until it was 13 years old.  I bought it in 1986. since 1986 the only thing that has been done to the valance is it got painted.  If I switch back to 1973 fenders of course they would need to be painted to match and then I should have some minor rust areas of the car dealt with and have the whole thing re-painted.  Pretty sure the paint would be tough to match.  It's a 30 year old paint job. With the weather changing, there will be some car shows coming up, maybe I can get some measurements off of some local cars.  I appreciate your thoughts on the matter.  Do you have any sense of what I could sell the 1970 fenders for?  Also is there any adjustment side to side of the headlight buckets?  I was a kid way back but I still should have complained about the fitment when I picked the car up from the body shop all those years ago.  Maybe I would of at least had an explanation. 
John
73 Cuda
360 Crate motor
FiTech Fuel injection
727 Trans (wishing it had Over Drive)

Offline 70chall440

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Re: 70 Cuda fenders (original steel)
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2020 - 04:21:58 pm »
Value of anything depends on who is selling and who is buying; since you can get new fenders for around $650 (each), assuming yours are not damaged they are worth at least that. Now before someone screams and say "but they are original Mopar parts", I am not saying that they are not worth more, I am just saying they are not worth less (unless there are issues). Point in case, if you found someone restoring a 70 6 pack or hemi car that desperately wanted/needed original metal, well then they might be worth $1000+ or more, but who knows. I generally price things as I feel they are worth, sometimes I am high, sometimes I am low but so long as I do not sell something and then regret it, its all good. When it comes to these cars, everyone wants to think they have a gold mine that will somehow yield big money, and some people do, but overall there is a median price there somewhere that is not astronomical now it is bargain basement. Since they have been installed, painted and been on a car for some time, they are not new or NOS, they are good used fenders. Since they are factory, if they were mine I would probably start at something like $750/each and throw "OBO" on there. So long as they pay for your new fenders,  you are probably doing good.

As to the headlight buckets, there really isn't any adjustment, they screw generally into plastic inserts that are in the fender lips as I recall. Look you really don't know what you don't know, until you take it apart and really see what is going on you won't know. It is possible that something is not bolted up correctly (don't know what they could be but...), I have had many things car related "just not work" or work the way I wanted and then after fiddling with it for awhile all a sudden it does; cannot say way this happens most of the time but it does.
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline john h

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Re: 70 Cuda fenders (original steel)
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2020 - 09:42:57 pm »
Value of anything depends on who is selling and who is buying; since you can get new fenders for around $650 (each), assuming yours are not damaged they are worth at least that. Now before someone screams and say "but they are original Mopar parts", I am not saying that they are not worth more, I am just saying they are not worth less (unless there are issues). Point in case, if you found someone restoring a 70 6 pack or hemi car that desperately wanted/needed original metal, well then they might be worth $1000+ or more, but who knows. I generally price things as I feel they are worth, sometimes I am high, sometimes I am low but so long as I do not sell something and then regret it, its all good. When it comes to these cars, everyone wants to think they have a gold mine that will somehow yield big money, and some people do, but overall there is a median price there somewhere that is not astronomical now it is bargain basement. Since they have been installed, painted and been on a car for some time, they are not new or NOS, they are good used fenders. Since they are factory, if they were mine I would probably start at something like $750/each and throw "OBO" on there. So long as they pay for your new fenders,  you are probably doing good.

As to the headlight buckets, there really isn't any adjustment, they screw generally into plastic inserts that are in the fender lips as I recall. Look you really don't know what you don't know, until you take it apart and really see what is going on you won't know. It is possible that something is not bolted up correctly (don't know what they could be but...), I have had many things car related "just not work" or work the way I wanted and then after fiddling with it for awhile all a sudden it does; cannot say way this happens most of the time but it does.
I really appreciate your insight.  I'm going to ponder it a a bit.  I am doing an exhaust system and AC box rebuild (you have also helped me with that).  The weather is getting warmer and I want to make sure the car is ready for the road.  Summer is short, so I will do some research on some other cars I see around the shows and maybe disassemble in the fall after I put the car to bed for the winter. if I can't figure out a way to get better alignment then I can decide where to go from there.  Mopars in the Park is held in MN and it's a very large show.  Typically there will be new metal for sale and I can se it up close and personal at the end of May.  Again, thank you for your opinions.

John
John
73 Cuda
360 Crate motor
FiTech Fuel injection
727 Trans (wishing it had Over Drive)

Offline 70chall440

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Re: 70 Cuda fenders (original steel)
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2020 - 10:59:37 pm »
No problem John, for now just try and enjoy the car, the fender deal isn't a time sensitive deal so you can get to it when you want.
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline 'Cuda Hunter

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Re: 70 Cuda fenders (original steel)
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2020 - 06:39:24 pm »
I do agree with all of that.
However there is one thing, I've found 70 fenders for hundreds less than the reproductions.  Not to say that there aren't some out there that are more than reproductions, but a person who is shopping around and in no rush can find original fenders for less than reproductions.  Not perfect.  But, no one is going to believe a set is perfect with paint on them. 
The pricing of the fenders can go all over the place.  right seller and right buyer makes all the difference.
"All riches begin as a state of mind and you have complete control of your mind"  -- B. Lee

Offline 70chall440

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Re: 70 Cuda fenders (original steel)
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2020 - 08:00:18 pm »
I agree with all of that as well. Its all about the buyer's need/desire for the items.
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline john h

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Re: 70 Cuda fenders (original steel)
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2020 - 08:12:36 am »
I agree with all of that as well. Its all about the buyer's need/desire for the items.
I'm just very surprised at how much the new fenders are costing, especially since there seems to be fitment issues with all the manufacturers.

John
73 Cuda
360 Crate motor
FiTech Fuel injection
727 Trans (wishing it had Over Drive)

Offline cudaguy71

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Re: 70 Cuda fenders (original steel)
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2020 - 09:56:43 am »
Hi John, I see they are already mounted and paint cause I have a pair of 73 fenders that I would gladly trade for a pair of 70's...  good luck, Eddie...
1973 'Cuda Project
1971 'Cuda Project
1998 Dodge Ram 1500
2003 Dodge Dakota Sport
1979 Plymouth Arrow

Offline 70chall440

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Re: 70 Cuda fenders (original steel)
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2020 - 12:09:29 pm »
I think the "fitment" issue has gotten overblown, I am sure some of the manufacturers have issues but I will say that while I did "fit mine" that was much more of a personal choice than a necessity. The original fenders did not fit much if at all better and I personally would much rather have brand new steel. These cars are far from perfect and after 50 years, things are not sitting as they were when new.
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline E-Body Products

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Re: 70 Cuda fenders (original steel)
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2020 - 09:30:50 pm »
Yeah, aftermarket fenders are the way to go unless you can score rust free or NOS. How do these look?


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