Author Topic: 522 stroker overheating  (Read 538 times)

Offline jhaag

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Re: 522 stroker overheating
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2019 - 09:57:47 am »
Why would a warped header cause it to overheat?

"Wrapped"... not warped

love 70 Challengers




Offline 70chall440

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Re: 522 stroker overheating
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2019 - 12:05:22 pm »
There is some discussion about wrapped headers holding more heat in the engine. I don't necessarily agree with this but I will say that if you don't have wrapped headers you can readily see of you have way too much timing in the engine as they will get red hot. I went through this with my 70 Challenger when I converted to an EFI 6 pack, I also replaced the ignition system and went to a MSD 6AL and MSD Hall Effect distributor. Upon starting the engine, at one point the headers started to get red (they are ceramic coated silver). I shut it down and fixed the issue, but it was surprising to see this happen.

Just one more point in the overall puzzle. I don't think wrapped headers are necessarily bad, in fact I have the TTIs in my Cuda "half wrapped" which I like.

Not saying this is a problem, just asking.
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline Kevin71

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Re: 522 stroker overheating
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2019 - 12:36:21 pm »
Its's 3 core  radiator in it now.  I am looking at the be cool radiator which is 2 core.  Headers are not wrapped.  I have had 4 core radiator prior to the 3 core and it overheated.

Offline 70chall440

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Re: 522 stroker overheating
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2019 - 01:48:01 pm »
Once again, I am having a problem understanding how none of these radiators worked. You don't have a filled block do you? Something else is going on here. It all boils down to this; either your engine is making too much heat or your cooling system is not working. Look at these 2 issues and approach them methodically to determine what is happening. My feeling is that you have gotten drawn into a sequence of parts replacement hoping to fix it rather than your mechanic understanding what is actually happening and applying an adequate solution.

Given the radiator changes, you should have arrived at one that was adequate by now. That 2 core/row should be moving a lot of fluid, then it comes back to the fan/shroud as to whether they are pulling enough air across the radiator to cool the fluid. Of course the water pump is in the mix for moving the the fluid but unless it is a complete POS I have a hard time believing this is the issue as generally they either work or they don't; and they typically work more than they don't.

Like I said previously, I'd throw a 160 deg T stat in to see if the system can abate the temps better as right now, your engine is producing more heat than your cooling system is capable of reducing. So, in my mind, if the coolant is allowed to flow earlier (at a lower temp) perhaps the cooling system could cool it quicker and manage the temperature rise. I'd also try some Water Wetter to see if that helps, it will allow heat to dissipate quicker.

Before I did all this, I would take a hard look at the timing and see where that is. If the timing is decent and you have addressed the rest and still have overheating issues, you have block and/or head issues meaning there is some restrictions in the system somewhere. This is where your IR thermometer comes in, see if you can locate high heat spots on the engine.

I know this is very frustrating, but if you stay at it you will get it figured out. Doesn't mean you will like what you will find, but you will at least figure out what has to be done.

A friend and I ran into a similar issue with a 440 6 pack motor he bought once (back in the late 70's). It had been pulled from a wrecked car and rebuilt and then sat waiting for a car to be put in. My friend heard about it and was able to make a deal on eventually. We got the motor (which was very clean) and presumably it had all very good internals and was "ready to go". We installed it into a 70 Convertible Challenger and it was a monster in terms of power. Problem was that it would overheat all the time, no matter what radiator, water pump etc. we threw at it, it would overheat. This was before the days of big aluminum radiators and such so we had to use what was available; we tried the biggest radiator we could find/fit, different fan and shroud configurations, even the new fanged "flex" fans, all to no avail. Finally we got fed up with it and pulled the engine figuring there was some defect we just could not locate. Upon pulling the engine and popping out some of the freeze plugs, we discovered that the water passages were almost completely full of dog food. Turns out mice had nested inside the block and brought in dog food as supplies and had done so in very large quantities. It took use 3 days of flushing and fishing around to get it out. Put new freeze plugs back in, reinstalled it and it worked as it was supposed to (in fact ran a bit too cold due to the HP cooling system we had constructed).

I hate to say this but given that this is now engine #2 with the same issues and I assume the same mechanic, perhaps there is a theme here and he is doing something incorrectly... Not sure what it could be, but there is something going on here and I really do not think it is your radiator or water pump.
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline Kevin71

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Re: 522 stroker overheating
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2019 - 03:48:07 pm »
Thank you for the advice.

Offline 70chall440

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Re: 522 stroker overheating
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2019 - 08:08:19 pm »
You are very welcome and I hope some of it is useful. Definitely hard to diagnose something over the interweb but like I said, stay with it and you will overcome it.
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline Kevin71

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Re: 522 stroker overheating
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2019 - 07:34:50 pm »
I wanted to give a update.  Car still overheating.  Pulled the freeze plugs and all kind of sludge in the block.  So now they want to tear it down to the block flush heads and block.  With the block in the car.  I don't think this is a good idea.  IT's a brand new paint job. Anyway they have been using one of these vacuum tools to put a vacuum on the system to fill with radiator flood.  It has a brand new 1500 dollar be cool radiator in it. The tops of the water tubes are pinched together.  Be cool says never heard of that happening.  I mentioned the vacuum on it and they said well maybe. Mechanic says he is never seen something like this.  Has anyone ever heard of one of these vacuum tools doing this?  Be cool says you can't rod this thing and fix it.  They say I will a need a new radiator.  Mechanic doesn't want to pay.  Loads of fun today.   

Offline cudabob496

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Re: 522 stroker overheating
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2019 - 02:16:26 am »
some things I've done to make sure engine does not over heat:

If electric water pump, will overheat. Even the Mezziere did!
I have electric fan on my alum radiator, with a good fan shroud.
I have a front spoiler and splitter, which forces more air into
radiator.
I have a well vented engine compartment. If sealed up, less flow can
go through radiator.
A mechanical 5 blade fan, with a shroud, cools best.
I put in Purple Ice in coolant, which is supposed to help a little. I use two bottles.
Timing is important. Also, engine too lean my run hotter.
I run a coolant recovery system, which keeps radiator full.
I drilled a hole in TSat, to allow venting system when filling
Make sure water pump not broke, or vanes in backwards.
Make sure lower hose not collapsing. Lower hose should also
be bigger than upper hose.
Fan, in shroud, should be 1/2 inch from radiator.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019 - 02:24:46 am by cudabob496 »
72 Cuda, owned 25 years. 496, with ported Stage VI heads, .625 in solid roller, 254/258 at .050, 3500 stall, 3.91 rear. 850 Holley DP, Reverse manual valve body.

1999 Trans Am, LS1, heads, cam, headers, stall, etc! Love to surprise the rice rockets with this one. They seem so confident, then it's "what the heck just happened?"

2011 Kawasaki Z1000

Offline Kevin71

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Re: 522 stroker overheating
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2019 - 09:14:31 am »
March says it does come with a under drive.  I don't have a clue about what water pump is on it.  It has a polished water pump housing.  PUmp is new motor is new.  $1,500 Be cool radiatior with fans and shrouds.  Has anyone ever heard of a radiator collapsing?

Offline cudabob496

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Re: 522 stroker overheating
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2019 - 05:17:57 pm »
March says it does come with a under drive.  I don't have a clue about what water pump is on it.  It has a polished water pump housing.  PUmp is new motor is new.  $1,500 Be cool radiatior with fans and shrouds.  Has anyone ever heard of a radiator collapsing?
YOu mean radiator hose collapsing??
72 Cuda, owned 25 years. 496, with ported Stage VI heads, .625 in solid roller, 254/258 at .050, 3500 stall, 3.91 rear. 850 Holley DP, Reverse manual valve body.

1999 Trans Am, LS1, heads, cam, headers, stall, etc! Love to surprise the rice rockets with this one. They seem so confident, then it's "what the heck just happened?"

2011 Kawasaki Z1000

Offline cudabob496

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Re: 522 stroker overheating
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2019 - 05:19:34 pm »
My idle is at 1200, due to long duration cam,and due to
faster idle spins water pump faster. What is your idle?

some water pumps pump more at lower rpm. I use a Milodon.

A higher idle also helps your Alternator be more efficient.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019 - 06:32:38 pm by cudabob496 »
72 Cuda, owned 25 years. 496, with ported Stage VI heads, .625 in solid roller, 254/258 at .050, 3500 stall, 3.91 rear. 850 Holley DP, Reverse manual valve body.

1999 Trans Am, LS1, heads, cam, headers, stall, etc! Love to surprise the rice rockets with this one. They seem so confident, then it's "what the heck just happened?"

2011 Kawasaki Z1000

Offline Kevin71

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Re: 522 stroker overheating
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2019 - 08:02:11 pm »
I am just baffled by a radiator collapsing in on it's self due to putting a vacuum on it?  I think it's idling at about 800 rpm.  It's a mild cam but it's a 522 stroker with a 850 quick fuel.  Timing has been checked.  water flow direction verified. The mechanic pulled the freeze plugs and found a bunch of sledge.  So that has to be cleaned out and we are thinking this will cure the heat issue, but still someone is going to have to buy a radiator for 800 bucks or so.  Has anyone had a issue with a Be Cool radiator.  Especially it collapsing from a vacuum.  It just doesn't seem possible.  Be cool says never has seen this happen.   

Offline Kevin71

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Re: 522 stroker overheating
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2019 - 08:06:37 pm »
I probably should have started the thread referring to the radiator collapsing.

Offline 70chall440

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Re: 522 stroker overheating
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2019 - 09:52:36 pm »
I would think that would have to be a lot of vacuum to collapse a radiator, I am having difficulty believing it. Can you post some pictures? As a point of interest/base line, I have personally put pressure into a number of radiators to find leaks, check sealing, etc. and have never seen a row move, flex, etc. Usually I think I have used less than 20 psi, but still if the tubes are that flexible I would think they would move. To that point, have them apply pressure and see if the tubes "inflate"... Not as a fix really, just to see if anything happens. I guess its possible that the tubes were so thin that they could collapse but it just doesn't seem like something that should happen.
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline Kevin71

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Re: 522 stroker overheating
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2019 - 10:12:25 pm »
BE cool says if you leave air in the system and it overheats it can turn to steam in inflate the radiator tubes and crushing the fins in between.  This is opposite of that.  They have had the radiators ruined from the steam.  I have watched videos on vacuum one down and they run up around 25lbs of pressure.  I will try and go get a pic.  Had a couple I showed my wife then deleted them.