Author Topic: Valvetrain (trouble) components identification  (Read 467 times)

Offline IroquoisPliskin

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Valvetrain (trouble) components identification
« on: June 19, 2018 - 06:12:59 am »
Hello guys,
I had quite a bad luck with my cuda last week. When cruising on the highway suddenly there was a noise from under the hood and the engine started to work strangely.
On idle it seemed like more than one cylinder was missing. I could find out that number 6 and number 8 were not firing (spark was coming). Yesterday I removed the valve covers and found a pushrod of #6 broken in two pieces and the rod of #8 could be pushed back without any effort. After further disassembly I could see that there quite obviously is some damage to the lifters and the camshaft itself at least for those two cylinders. I still need to find out if #6 and #8 is the only damaged area.
However it looks like at least the camshaft, the lifters and the pushrods need to be replaced. And I still dont understand the root cause of that damage.
Unfortunately I dont have any information on the rocker arms in my car. Its quite obviously not stock. Do you have an idea how I can find out what is installed now? I guess I will need this information to set up the new cam shaft and pushrods correctly. Or is it possible to match the rods and lifters without knowing the exact brand and model of the rockets?
I know that the pushrods came from Smith Bros. :
NR34A-CB  3/8 x 0.049 4130 non HT, no oil
C51964A     5/32 R Cup
B51964SA   5/32 R Ball
I have found an invoice on those. But so far, nothing on the rockers. Does anyone know that company? Any comments on them? Does it make sense to order the pushrods from them again?
The camshaft was the Edelbrock Performer-Plus Mopar PN 2192.
I hope you have some ideas to share.
Thanks!


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Offline 1 Wild R/T

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Re: Valvetrain (trouble) components identification
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2018 - 09:26:50 am »
Smith Bros is top notch..... Post pictures of the Rockers..  If the rockers aren't hurt you don't really "need to know what brand they are... But I'd want to know....   Lifters came with the cam but if the cam isn't damaged they can be replaced the a set of Johnson's....   If the cam is hurt the engine needs to come apart to see what the metal from the cam has damaged...
« Last Edit: June 19, 2018 - 09:31:21 am by 1 Wild R/T »
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Offline IroquoisPliskin

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Re: Valvetrain (trouble) components identification
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2018 - 02:02:20 pm »
Hi, the cam has some damage and will have to be replaced. One of the pushrods was broken and another one is bent. Rockers seem not to be damaged but I cannot find any designation, serial number or something similar on it that could help to identify the manufacturer. I will try to provide some pictures of those.
Id like to keep the rockers but Im considering to replace the cam, lifters, pushrods and the springs.


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Offline 70chall440

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Re: Valvetrain (trouble) components identification
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2018 - 03:44:45 pm »
No numbers or marking sound like PRW rockers but I could be wrong.
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6, 73 Cuda (under const)
05 Durango, 99 Dakota, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR, 61 Jeep FC170
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline IroquoisPliskin

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Re: Valvetrain (trouble) components identification
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2018 - 04:44:43 pm »
Here some pics.


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Offline 70chall440

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Re: Valvetrain (trouble) components identification
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2018 - 11:31:02 pm »
Afraid I can't help, no idea whose those are. Kind of resemble Hughes rockers but I am guessing.
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6, 73 Cuda (under const)
05 Durango, 99 Dakota, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR, 61 Jeep FC170
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline IroquoisPliskin

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Re: Valvetrain (trouble) components identification
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2018 - 04:30:19 am »
Thanks for trying, anyway  :thumbsup:


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Offline 1 Wild R/T

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Re: Valvetrain (trouble) components identification
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2018 - 12:05:48 pm »
Gonna need allot better pictures than that to try to ID those..... I can tell you they are not Hughes, Hughes doesn't anodize their rockers black, they are natural aluminum....  H&S are orange, Crane are gold....  The only black ones I know of are No-Name Chinese knock offs from Ebay.....   I would suggest careful inspection of them looking for any markings & also any wear......  Be sure to check each roller tip & each fulcrum closely... Also inspect the adjusters....Inspect the shafts for signs of brindling or galling....
JS27N0B 70 Challenger R/T Convertible  FJ5 Sublime, Show Poodle w/90,000 miles since resto
WS27L8G 68 Coronet R/T Convertible  PP1 Bright Red, Project
RM21H9E 69 Road Runner Coupe R4 Performance Red, Sold...
5H21C  65 Falcon 2 dr Wagon... Dog Hauler...

Offline IroquoisPliskin

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Re: Valvetrain (trouble) components identification
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2018 - 03:22:03 am »
A bit confusing combination... chinese knock offs and Smith Bros.... :clueless:


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Offline 1 Wild R/T

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Re: Valvetrain (trouble) components identification
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2018 - 09:14:46 am »
Yes it seems  a bit odd but I'm sure it happens more than you expect.... A guy buys these sweet new rockers without knowing any better now he needs pushrods cause the stock ones no longer fit.... Well China doesn't make custom length pushrods, for that you have Smith Bros or Manton as the two big players.....
JS27N0B 70 Challenger R/T Convertible  FJ5 Sublime, Show Poodle w/90,000 miles since resto
WS27L8G 68 Coronet R/T Convertible  PP1 Bright Red, Project
RM21H9E 69 Road Runner Coupe R4 Performance Red, Sold...
5H21C  65 Falcon 2 dr Wagon... Dog Hauler...

Offline IroquoisPliskin

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Re: Valvetrain (trouble) components identification
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2018 - 03:40:07 am »
I have an answer from the previous owner. He can remind himself that the rockers are from Indy Cylinder Head. I guess that setup is more plausible than Smith Bros. + chinese knock offs :thumbsup:


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Offline IroquoisPliskin

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Re: Valvetrain (trouble) components identification
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2018 - 02:50:28 am »
Hey guys, as the previous camshaft came from Mopar Performance and it hasnt shown any sign of worn or other kind of damage at the time I replaced it by the current Edelbrock cam, Id like to go back to a Mopar Performance cam. There are few cams to choose from but I cannot find an overview on what MP cams are available in general. I can only compare whats offered by a particular supplier at the time. Especially when its about roller cams I found only very limited info on MPs offer. Does anyone know if and where I can find an overview on those?
Thanks!


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Offline jimynick

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Re: Valvetrain (trouble) components identification
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2018 - 11:22:31 pm »
That engine had to be clattering like crazy before it finally died, what with the whole bottom worn out of that lifter! If you're going to a roller, to try to avoid a replay, may I suggest contacting Lunati? I recently bought a hydraulic roller for a stroker 360 and they were very knowledgeable and took the time to ask questions and explain their recommendations and why.  The reason the pushrods broke was that they likely fell out due to excessive clearance and got caught on something like the rocker or it's shaft, as other than that they'd still be good. Check them all by rolling them on a piece of flat glass before reusing them.  :cheers:

Offline IroquoisPliskin

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Re: Valvetrain (trouble) components identification
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2018 - 08:03:14 am »
Thanks for the recommendation.

That engine had to be clattering like crazy before it finally died....

Thats the strange thing. There hasnt been any sound. Only when the pushrod finally broke there was some noise. But even since then no continues clattering. It was appearing and disappearing periodically. For example once the engine was cold there was no sound at all, but after around 15 minutes you could hear something. I didnt try how long it would take to disappear again. I just removed the intake manifold and the valve covers to check whats going on.
However, I dont really intend to reuse the pushrods. I think I will try to get a new set.


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Offline jimynick

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Re: Valvetrain (trouble) components identification
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2018 - 10:47:25 pm »
Your call, your car and your wallet, but if they roll out smoothly and aren't scored on the shafts nor balls/cups and they're Smith Bros. I'd reuse them and order the replacements with perhaps a couple of spares- just in case.  :cheers: