Author Topic: 1970 BS23 440 Auto  (Read 778 times)

Offline Bis4Brian

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1970 BS23 440 Auto
« on: June 01, 2017 - 11:33:47 pm »
I found a 1970 440 'Cuda Auto in a barn here in Arkansas.  The odometer shows 11,585 miles and the old crazy guy says it's the original miles  :dunno:

The drivetrain, fenders, grill and hood are all missing.  Body shows no rust- carpet was pulled decades ago and the floors look very nice.  All the glass, seats, dash, column and console are there.

The fender tag is there and matches core support numbers.  Vin on dash matches.  Windshield has inspection sticker from 1981.

Guy is asking 30K for it without any proof that the mileage is correct other than his word.  He bought the car in 1982 with the missing parts already missing.  He says the guy he got it from blew the engine racing it and used the front end body parts on a '70 convertible.

So, any advice?  30k seems too high for this one as everything needs to be redone.  I didn't get many pics because a thunder storm rolled in as soon as I got there.  I'll drive back down there in two weeks and go over it.

I checked for broadcast sheet, no such luck. 
« Last Edit: June 01, 2017 - 11:39:20 pm by Bis4Brian »




Online Beekeeper

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Re: 1970 BS23 440 Auto
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2017 - 11:47:51 pm »
Well if it was restored to near perfection, it could be worth $45-50k. Restoring any car is gonna set you back 30k at the bare minimum, probably much more. The originality of the mileage doesn't mean much in my opinion because the car is not in good shape and needs a full restoration. In addition, the motor is blown and has to be rebuilt anyway (If it's still there).

I'm thinking more like 15k if there is little to no rust and it's missing major pieces that will cost significant money to replace. That's assuming the original drivetrain comes with it. It needs to be something extra special in my opinion to justify that price in that condition.

Offline Bis4Brian

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Re: 1970 BS23 440 Auto
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2017 - 11:53:23 pm »
Well if it was restored to near perfection, it could be worth $45-50k. Restoring any car is gonna set you back 30k at the bare minimum, probably much more. The originality of the mileage doesn't mean much in my opinion because the car is not in good shape and needs a full restoration. In addition, the motor is blown and has to be rebuilt anyway (If it's still there).

I'm thinking more like 15k if there is little to no rust and it's missing major pieces that will cost significant money to replace. That's assuming the original drivetrain comes with it. It needs to be something extra special in my opinion to justify that price in that condition.

Agreed.  The guy might never get what he's asking for it.  I'll keep in touch with him and see if I can bring him down to a more realistic price. 


Online Beekeeper

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Re: 1970 BS23 440 Auto
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2017 - 12:15:34 am »
Maybe I'm pessimistic but I tend to think that people who are that far above a realistic value are almost impossible to work with. If he was at 20k, getting him down another 5k might be doable since it's only a quarter off his asking. Hard to imagine anyone cutting their price in half unless they became desperate. Even if he came down to 15k, that's not the deal of the century so people still wouldn't be standing in line for it with cash in hand. At 15k, he will still have to endure offers even lower which would piss him off to no end if he truly believed it was worth 30k all along.

Offline 1 Wild R/T

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Re: 1970 BS23 440 Auto
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2017 - 12:20:17 am »
If the engine & trans were still there 30 would probably be ok... Missing... Not so much... Looks like an H51 ?   A/C car so no Shaker.... U codes are rare, Rarer than V codes but rarity doesn't mean greater value in this case...
B  Barracuda
S  Special  (Cuda)
23  Hardtop
U  440-4 375 HP
0  1970 model year
E  Built @ Los Angeles
111187 Sequence number
A10 Oct 10th 1969 Scheduled Production Date
A62 Rally Dash
26 26" radiator
End  third shift
B51  Power Brakes
C16  Console
C55 Bucket Seats
H51  A/C
J25 3 speed wipers
J45 Hood Pins
M21 Body Sill Moldings
M88 Tail Panel Moldings
N41 Dual Exhaust
N42 Exhaust Tips
V1W White Vinyl Top
26 26" radiator
End  third shift

To bad the rest of the tag got chopped off.. 
« Last Edit: June 02, 2017 - 12:22:52 am by 1 Wild R/T »
JS27N0B 70 Challenger R/T Convertible  FJ5 Sublime, Show Poodle w/90,000 miles since resto
WS27L8G 68 Coronet R/T Convertible  PP1 Bright Red, Project
RM21H9E 69 Road Runner Coupe R4 Performance Red, Sold...
5H21C  65 Falcon 2 dr Wagon... Dog Hauler...

Offline Bis4Brian

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Re: 1970 BS23 440 Auto
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2017 - 12:32:19 am »
If the engine & trans were still there 30 would probably be ok... Missing... Not so much... Looks like an H51 ?   A/C car so no Shaker.... U codes are rare, Rarer than V codes but rarity doesn't mean greater value in this case...
B  Barracuda
S  Special  (Cuda)
23  Hardtop
U  440-4 375 HP
0  1970 model year
E  Built @ Los Angeles
111187 Sequence number
A10 Oct 10th 1969 Scheduled Production Date
A62 Rally Dash
26 26" radiator
End  third shift
B51  Power Brakes
C16  Console
C55 Bucket Seats
H51  A/C
J25 3 speed wipers
J45 Hood Pins
M21 Body Sill Moldings
M88 Tail Panel Moldings
N41 Dual Exhaust
N42 Exhaust Tips
V1W White Vinyl Top
26 26" radiator
End  third shift

To bad the rest of the tag got chopped off.. 

Here's the other side of the tag.  It would be a very nice car restored- A white vinyl top car with A/C is right up my alley.

Offline 1 Wild R/T

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Re: 1970 BS23 440 Auto
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2017 - 12:45:44 am »
Front rubber bumper, blue in/out... Very cool!

E86  440-4
D32  HD727
EB5 True Blue Metallic
H6B5  High grade Vinyl Bucket Seats Medium Blue
V1W  White Vinyl Top
A21  Elastomeric Bumper Front Only Includes dual Chrome Racing Mirrors
Hard to read but G31 & G33  Dual Chrome Mirrors
M25 Body Sill Moldings
M31 Body Belt Moldings
N85 Tachometer
R11 AM Musicmaster  2 Watt
JS27N0B 70 Challenger R/T Convertible  FJ5 Sublime, Show Poodle w/90,000 miles since resto
WS27L8G 68 Coronet R/T Convertible  PP1 Bright Red, Project
RM21H9E 69 Road Runner Coupe R4 Performance Red, Sold...
5H21C  65 Falcon 2 dr Wagon... Dog Hauler...

Offline Bis4Brian

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Re: 1970 BS23 440 Auto
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2017 - 01:00:22 am »
Front rubber bumper, blue in/out... Very cool!

E86  440-4
D32  HD727
EB5 True Blue Metallic
H6B5  High grade Vinyl Bucket Seats Medium Blue
V1W  White Vinyl Top
A21  Elastomeric Bumper Front Only Includes dual Chrome Racing Mirrors
Hard to read but G31 & G33  Dual Chrome Mirrors
M25 Body Sill Moldings
M31 Body Belt Moldings
N85 Tachometer
R11 AM Musicmaster  2 Watt

Thanks for the decode!  Is V1W on there twice or am I needing new glasses?  Third code on top row and first code on fourth row. 

Offline AARTA340

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Re: 1970 BS23 440 Auto
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2017 - 01:05:28 am »
Thanks for the decode!  Is V1W on there twice or am I needing new glasses?  Third code on top row and first code on fourth row.


The car is an LA built car as pointed out in one of the above posts. It is a LA "thing" and to this day, I have not heard why they duplicated the vinyl roof code.  :dunno:

Offline Bis4Brian

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Re: 1970 BS23 440 Auto
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2017 - 01:29:30 am »

The car is an LA built car as pointed out in one of the above posts. It is a LA "thing" and to this day, I have not heard why they duplicated the vinyl roof code.  :dunno:

Thanks for the info! 

Offline Katfish

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Re: 1970 BS23 440 Auto
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2017 - 05:51:17 am »
Agree with above, but I wouldn't pay more than $10k.
Unless you do EVERYTHING yourself, you'll easily have $75k into a car that's worth $50k.
And you'll have it completed in 5 years if you rush...........

Offline 1 Wild R/T

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Re: 1970 BS23 440 Auto
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2017 - 11:56:51 am »
Something to keep in mind, with the engine & trans gone, what else is missing?

Driveshaft?
Trans crossmember & mount?
Shifter linkages?
Transmission Cooler lines?
Motor Mounts & Brackets?
Starter?
P/S Pump?
Alternator?
Brackets & Pulleys?
A/C Compressor?
Carburator?
Distributor?
Wiring Harnesses?
Battery Cables?
A/C Condensor?
Radiator?

Those are all $$$ but you can get them.... Next comes a much harder to find part...
Big Block A/C Hoses... These can be very tough to find & big $$$ if you do...

Front Sheet Metal is all reproduced, quality isn't OE but guys seem to make it work....

JS27N0B 70 Challenger R/T Convertible  FJ5 Sublime, Show Poodle w/90,000 miles since resto
WS27L8G 68 Coronet R/T Convertible  PP1 Bright Red, Project
RM21H9E 69 Road Runner Coupe R4 Performance Red, Sold...
5H21C  65 Falcon 2 dr Wagon... Dog Hauler...

Online Beekeeper

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Re: 1970 BS23 440 Auto
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2017 - 12:35:28 pm »
I wish I knew about big block AC hoses being so hard to find. I helped a friend with his 70 Charger RT last year and he wanted to ditch all AC stuff. We sold off the parts and tossed the hoses. The hoses were useable but I assumed they were available new.

Offline 1 Wild R/T

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Re: 1970 BS23 440 Auto
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2017 - 12:44:22 pm »
I wish I knew about big block AC hoses being so hard to find. I helped a friend with his 70 Charger RT last year and he wanted to ditch all AC stuff. We sold off the parts and tossed the hoses. The hoses were useable but I assumed they were available new.

Ouch... 70 only, big block only...  You can get hoses that will work but not correct parts....
JS27N0B 70 Challenger R/T Convertible  FJ5 Sublime, Show Poodle w/90,000 miles since resto
WS27L8G 68 Coronet R/T Convertible  PP1 Bright Red, Project
RM21H9E 69 Road Runner Coupe R4 Performance Red, Sold...
5H21C  65 Falcon 2 dr Wagon... Dog Hauler...

Offline AARTA340

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Re: 1970 BS23 440 Auto
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2017 - 02:52:43 pm »
Why buy a 20-30k project when for just a bit more you could have bought this car from a member here. Yes, it is a 383, but not a money loser by any means. That car will take about 40k to get it to be a nice car again. Not that it shouldn't be saved.

http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=119027.0