Barracuda Challenger Forum

Author Topic: Engine cranks on key, but doesn't start. Starts by short-circuiting the relay  (Read 687 times)

Offline Ornamental

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 918
  • Oslo, Norway
The 440 will crank, but not start by twisting the key in the ignition.
However, if I take a screwdriver and short circuit the starter solenoid the engine will fire up pretty much immediately.
I've swapped the starter solenoid without getting any different result.  :pullinghair: :banghead:

The ignition is controlled by a MSD 6AL box.

I'm going slightly mad here. Any suggestions?


Edit: Forgot to mention that the neutral safety switch has been tested OK.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2017 - 08:28:03 am by Ornamental »
Panther Pink '72 Challenger Rallye.
Grey '70 Challenger R/T

-There are two kinds of pedestrians: The quick and the dead.

***Per Arne***




Offline 1 Wild R/T

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 4175
Your not getting power to the MSD in the crank position, could be a bad ignition switch....    Where does the MSD get it's switched power from?
JS27N0B 70 Challenger R/T Convertible  FJ5 Sublime, Show Poodle w/90,000 miles since resto
WS27L8G 68 Coronet R/T Convertible  PP1 Bright Red, Project
RM21H9E 69 Road Runner Coupe R4 Performance Red, Sold...
5H21C  65 Falcon 2 dr Wagon... Dog Hauler...

Offline 70chall440

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 3532
What he said... Just went through this myself.

However, I need to ask; did it start previously or did you just install the MSD? The MSD has to have power on the red w/white tracer in the key on and start positions.
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6, 73 Cuda (under const)
05 Durango, 99 Dakota, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR, 61 Jeep FC170
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)


Offline Ornamental

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 918
  • Oslo, Norway
The entire wiring is new reproduction from Year One, used to be a POS Painless wiring.

The MSD has been tried powered via the ACC on the fuse box,  no go.
Also tried via the tan three-way outlet in the dash harness, no go.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2017 - 10:30:09 am by Ornamental »
Panther Pink '72 Challenger Rallye.
Grey '70 Challenger R/T

-There are two kinds of pedestrians: The quick and the dead.

***Per Arne***

Offline 70chall440

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 3532
The ACC will not work for sure and I don't think the tan 3 way will either. You need to wire it into the brown or blue wires that go to the ballast resistor; as stated you MUST have power in the run and crank positions. In these cars especially with stock or reproduction wiring harness, when you crank the car it cuts power to almost everything.

You need to do some testing or perhaps someone else will chime in. I modified my harness because I am using a Hall Effect distributor and Holley ECU so I do not need the ballast resistor, thus I was able to connect the blue and brown wires and wire my MSD and ECU into them.
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6, 73 Cuda (under const)
05 Durango, 99 Dakota, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR, 61 Jeep FC170
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline Ornamental

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 918
  • Oslo, Norway
70chall440, thank you! Good to know, I should be able to make some progress now.
Panther Pink '72 Challenger Rallye.
Grey '70 Challenger R/T

-There are two kinds of pedestrians: The quick and the dead.

***Per Arne***

Offline 734406pk

  • Andy
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1666
You will need to connect both the BLUE wire (hot with ignition switch in the "run" position) and the BROWN (hot with ignition switch in the "start" position) together on the engine harness, then connect this spliced pair to the MSD 6AL  RED ignition switch input wire. The ballast resistor not used with the MSD 6AL amplifier. This connection will supply ignition power to the MSD 6AL in both the "run" and "start" switch positions. Good Luck!
1973 Challenger 440 6 pack auto 3.91 rear
2012 Dodge Ram 3500 dually 6.7 Cummins Fleece EFI Live
1973 Challenger 318 2bbl auto 2.73 rear 22.5 mpg RIP
1970 Challenger TA 340 4bbl auto-Sold and sad
1999 Dodge Ram 3500 dually 5.9 Cummins Fleece tuned VGT-sold
1995 Kawasaki ZX1100E & still alive

Offline Ornamental

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 918
  • Oslo, Norway
You will need to connect both the BLUE wire (hot with ignition switch in the "run" position) and the BROWN (hot with ignition switch in the "start" position) together on the engine harness, then connect this spliced pair to the MSD 6AL  RED ignition switch input wire. The ballast resistor not used with the MSD 6AL amplifier. This connection will supply ignition power to the MSD 6AL in both the "run" and "start" switch positions. Good Luck!
Great, thank you!  :2thumbs:

I'm away from home now, will be a while until I get able to sort this out, but I think it'll be allright.  :smokin:
Panther Pink '72 Challenger Rallye.
Grey '70 Challenger R/T

-There are two kinds of pedestrians: The quick and the dead.

***Per Arne***

Offline 734406pk

  • Andy
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1666
I hope it works for you. :cheers:
1973 Challenger 440 6 pack auto 3.91 rear
2012 Dodge Ram 3500 dually 6.7 Cummins Fleece EFI Live
1973 Challenger 318 2bbl auto 2.73 rear 22.5 mpg RIP
1970 Challenger TA 340 4bbl auto-Sold and sad
1999 Dodge Ram 3500 dually 5.9 Cummins Fleece tuned VGT-sold
1995 Kawasaki ZX1100E & still alive

Offline 70chall440

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 3532
It will, I went through the same deal not long ago. I actually removed the harness from the firewall and opened it up and removed the electronic ignition wires as they are no longer needed.
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6, 73 Cuda (under const)
05 Durango, 99 Dakota, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR, 61 Jeep FC170
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline Ornamental

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 918
  • Oslo, Norway
Re: Engine cranks on key, but doesn't start. Starts by short-circuiting the relay
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2017 - 07:25:38 am »
It worked!  :woohoo:

Thank you very much 70chall440 and 734406pk!!  :cheers:
Panther Pink '72 Challenger Rallye.
Grey '70 Challenger R/T

-There are two kinds of pedestrians: The quick and the dead.

***Per Arne***

Offline 734406pk

  • Andy
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1666
Re: Engine cranks on key, but doesn't start. Starts by short-circuiting the relay
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2017 - 10:46:10 am »
It worked!  :woohoo:

Thank you very much 70chall440 and 734406pk!!  :cheers:

 :bananasmi :burnout:
1973 Challenger 440 6 pack auto 3.91 rear
2012 Dodge Ram 3500 dually 6.7 Cummins Fleece EFI Live
1973 Challenger 318 2bbl auto 2.73 rear 22.5 mpg RIP
1970 Challenger TA 340 4bbl auto-Sold and sad
1999 Dodge Ram 3500 dually 5.9 Cummins Fleece tuned VGT-sold
1995 Kawasaki ZX1100E & still alive