Author Topic: Want to liven up a 360, advice needed please.  (Read 1770 times)

Offline Matt70

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 868
Want to liven up a 360, advice needed please.
« on: July 14, 2016 - 07:35:38 am »
So, long story short Challenger has been in storage for 3 years. Really wanting to liven up the 360 that is in it. Here is what I am running-

1978   360 (shaved heads so I was told)

Purple cam 260 degree/268 degree  Lift .430/.450   Mopar # P4452759

Edelbrock Performer Duel plane intake

Edelbrock Performer 600 cfm AVS

Stock exhaust manifolds

3" dual exhaust all the way back

518 OD trans with 2000 stall  (Will be replaced with 4 speed.....eventually lol)

8 3/4 rear with 3:91 gears

I am looking to upgrade the Cam, Carb and add headers.

I have done some research on here and Chryco recommended a Lunati Voodoo 10200701Lk  258/265   .454/.475 for these low compression engines.

I think a larger carb will be in order, 700/750 CFM? Suggestions?

I want ceramic headers, car sits low. Any suggestions for a good fit? I have power steering, power brakes and a stock starter.

Thanks guys!

Forgot to mention, I live at 6000ft. above sea level....

« Last Edit: July 14, 2016 - 07:37:16 am by Matt70 »
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

George Orwell




Offline bandt

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 433
Re: Want to liven up a 360, advice needed please.
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2016 - 10:14:00 am »
TTI headers are by far the best quality and fit for our cars. Chryco recommendations for cams are right on. Cam designs have changed through the years, there are better options than the Mopar purple stuff. Torque is what counts on the street, you need a cam that will not bleed any compression, especially with a lower compression motor. Go with Neil's recommendation.

Brian

Offline Chryco Psycho

  • Administrator
  • C-C.com Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 36618
  • 70 Challenger R/T SE 70 tube Chassis Cuda now sold
Re: Want to liven up a 360, advice needed please.
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2016 - 11:51:23 pm »
Well where to start .
 I would still recommend the same cam it will have more lift & far less duration & really help the low & midrange power  .
 TTI are the best but you pay for it , the other good header is Dougs , ceramic coated great fit & a few $$ less DO NOT Buy any header that sits below the steering center link .
 Carb , bang for the $$ Proform ,,Mancini had the best pricing probably still do , Quick fuel , Holley HP series . 2x the CI is what I shoot for 700/750 cfm on a 360 .
 Might want to look at Heads , a set of 308 castings will help big time or aftermarket RHS [new name now] or Airwolf with a smaller // heart shaped chamber could really help .
 One issue I see is the 3" exhaust , I rarely go that big with a big block unless it is 512 CI or will see high RPM on a mild 360 it is Huge . I may help to run a 18" long 2.5" pipe off the headers to pick up velocity coming out of the header .
 6000' altitude is no help either , maybe throw a turbo on it !! With low compression @ that altitude a turbo would be awesome !!

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t


Offline Matt70

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 868
Re: Want to liven up a 360, advice needed please.
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2016 - 05:00:22 am »
Thanks for the input guys. Really appreciated. With the Lunati cam you recommended do you see any reason to beef up the valve train? If I go with the 308 heads will that cam still be a good fit?

 
« Last Edit: July 15, 2016 - 05:02:06 am by Matt70 »
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

George Orwell

Offline Chryco Psycho

  • Administrator
  • C-C.com Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 36618
  • 70 Challenger R/T SE 70 tube Chassis Cuda now sold
Re: Want to liven up a 360, advice needed please.
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2016 - 10:21:07 am »
I would match up springs with the cam & 10* retainers are always a good upgrade but the cam is relatively mild .
 It will work well with 308 heads too

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline HP2

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 4477
Re: Want to liven up a 360, advice needed please.
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2016 - 10:29:21 pm »
The big thing for that era motor and altitude is maintaining cylinder pressure. Without it, you'll have significant power reductions. Chryco's recommendation about more lift, less duration  cam will help here. Reducing chamber volume on the heads is also a big help. I know that wasn't on your list, but it could be a big help in the future and would be the last available effort before actually getting into the  motor internals for upgrades. I'd actually pursue  this ahead of a bigger carb  if it were my car, but cost and effort are big factors with this .

Since you have a small block, you can also look at Hooker 5115 small block headers as a design that may be able to be found at lower prices than TTI and still have decent flow. These pop up on craigslist and swap meets more often than TTI or Dougs.

Offline Matt70

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 868
Re: Want to liven up a 360, advice needed please.
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2016 - 08:22:56 am »
Thank you everyone for the advice, huge help! I have been doing some google searches for 308 heads....not as easy as I thought they would be to find. Anyone know of a good place to look? Should I just hit the Pull and Pay when I get home? What is a reasonable price for them?
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

George Orwell

Offline Chryco Psycho

  • Administrator
  • C-C.com Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 36618
  • 70 Challenger R/T SE 70 tube Chassis Cuda now sold
Re: Want to liven up a 360, advice needed please.
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2016 - 10:40:07 am »
I would be looking in the wreckers for sure
 I would not pay a lot for them as you will have to rebuild them , what does the wrecker charge for heads ? I was paying $30 each .

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline Matt70

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 868
Re: Want to liven up a 360, advice needed please.
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2016 - 07:05:42 am »
Thanks Chryco!
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

George Orwell

Offline barnett468

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 41
Re: Want to liven up a 360, advice needed please.
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2016 - 11:29:38 am »
The single best thing you can do is increase your compression to around 11 to 1 There is no cam on the planet that will make a significant improvement in your situation.

Yes as chryco mentioned, your exhaust pipes are too big but changing those will not have a very big effect either.

You will find it next to impossible to find used heads these days . Ebay is your best bet.

You can also probably use a thinner head gasket to increase compression but you need to check head to piston clearance.


Offline Matt70

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 868
Re: Want to liven up a 360, advice needed please.
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2016 - 07:46:18 am »
As per the advice on here I am going to change out the heads. I am looking for the 308 casting swirlport heads...no luck so far. Ebay has a ton but no 87-91 308's. Anyone know how thin of a head gasket I could go with the 308s?

I am going with the Lunati cam, and Dougs D453 ceramic coated headers. I will also put in the 18" 2.5" pipe off the headers. I have not decided on a carb yet.
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

George Orwell

Offline Matt70

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 868
Re: Want to liven up a 360, advice needed please.
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2016 - 10:37:58 am »
So I talked to the Lunati tech line today. Below is the springs they recommend for the cam. They said that the head may require some machining for them to fit??? Anyone have any info on this? Thanks,   Matt

Dual Valve Spring W/ Damper - 1.437" O.D., 1.050" Coil Bind, 402 Lbs./In. Spring Rate (Set of 16)
Product Description

Type: Dual With Damper
O.D. Outer: 1.437"
I.D. Outer: 1.076"
I.D. Inner: .697"
Coil Bind: 1.050"
Seat Load: 115@1.700"
Open Load: 336@1.150"
Rate (lbs/in): 402
Quantity: 16
Part Number: 73195-16
Previous Part Number: 73195LUN
Jobber Price: $103.41
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

George Orwell

Offline Matt70

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 868
Re: Want to liven up a 360, advice needed please.
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2016 - 05:20:11 pm »
Well my search for 308 casting heads has not went well, found one built set and they wanted 2000 for them. A guy here in town will build me a set of EQ Iron heads (ENQCH 318-360) for 1232.00  This includes having the valves done and a gasket set. Does anyone have experience with these heads and is that a good price?
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

George Orwell

Offline chargerdon

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 229
Re: Want to liven up a 360, advice needed please.
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2017 - 09:03:35 pm »
For what its worth..   

I have a 76 truck engine 360 in my 74 Challenger.   

It was built by an performance engine shop for someone else.   I do not know the heads, but, the builder told me they were ported and polished, and that he replaced the pistons with .030 overs built to deliver a "true" 9.5 compression ratio.   Sounds low, but then I know that my stock 383 4V in my Charger was advertised by Chrysler as being 10.0 and if you do the math you will get 10.0...Until you factor in a normal head gasket...  and then it drops to about a true 9.0.   So 9.5 sounds good (was told any higher and would have trouble with pump gas pinging.   

In it is a Mopar purple 508 camshaft.   That has 292 advertised duration, and 248 at 050 lift.   Intake and exhaust.   IT IS TOO HOT...   Idle is very rough and have to run around 18-20 degrees static advance.   It would like MORE...but then starts to "back lash" when starting at 20 degrees.   So I keep it at about 18...   had to put in a mechanical advance limiter to keep total to between 34-36 degrees.   Also, at 1,000 rpm idle, the vacuum is only around 5" which means that its barely, barely enough to run the vacuum power brakes.   

Intake manifold is Edlebrock RPM Air Gap and Edlebrock 1405   600 cfm.   Was told by the Holley lovers that its "garbage" because there is no tuning on the idle jets...   That a Holley would help..   HMMMM   

I have on it the Patriot Long tube Ceramic Headers purchased from Summit.   They went in easy...... cause a tightness around cyl 5 and 7 for the plugs..   but its ok..   and look good....  Running 2 /14 pipes behind the collector.   Only thing I don't like about them, is that they sit to close to the drivers side engine mount, so that I cant get the bolt out to replace mount, without removing the header on that side.   Otherwise, its great, can take on and off the mini starter without any problem..   Oh and their inexpensive.. 

It runs STRONG...   I have the 904 torqueflite, with a 2500 RPM stall converter.   Even with 2.76 open differential, I cant stand on it from rest without breaking the tires loose...I have 235X60X14 Tires...   Couple of quick tests shows 0-60 times of around 5.5 seconds...   I have a 3.23 sure grip to drop in soon cant wait...   Wish I had your 3.71's and the 518 overdrive...

 


Offline 1 Wild R/T

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 4229
Re: Want to liven up a 360, advice needed please.
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2017 - 10:38:59 pm »
Where do you live?

Set of 308 heads for sale.....
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=119779.0
JS27N0B 70 Challenger R/T Convertible  FJ5 Sublime, Show Poodle w/90,000 miles since resto
WS27L8G 68 Coronet R/T Convertible  PP1 Bright Red, Project
RM21H9E 69 Road Runner Coupe R4 Performance Red, Sold...
5H21C  65 Falcon 2 dr Wagon... Dog Hauler...