Author Topic: Hemi Build  (Read 1850 times)

Offline 1970 440 RT's

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Hemi Build
« on: August 01, 2015 - 03:59:56 pm »
Hi All,

Stumbled across an iron Hemi Water block P5007668AB.  It is brand new, finish bored at 4.25.

What is your best recommendation for maximum street performance, reliability, etc. 

1. Bore, stroke (would rather not bore, but depending or real HP/TQ gain) 
Would like to use stock oil pickup

2. Cam:  Hyd, Solid, Flat, Roller

3. Heads

4. Rocker set up

5. Maybe willing to trade for Siamese Megablock for increased borability depending on recommendations..

6. Anything else...




Offline roadman5312

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Re: Hemi Build
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2015 - 05:44:51 pm »
           Old School    :dunno:   This is your territory.    :ylsuper:


                                                                                    :rebel:

Offline rUNCHARGER

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Re: Hemi Build
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2015 - 06:37:10 pm »
I've had a bunch of them for close to 40 years. What's your real intended use? Do you want to put lots of miles on it (like 10,000 or more a year on the freeway)? Is fuel mileage an issue (I'm serious, I downgraded my orange cars Hemi from a 572 to a 528 based on fuel economy concerns)? Do you want to run 10's and have a chassis to do it?
You can get a stock stroke, stock head 426 Hemi into the 10's with the right chassis and very mild mods. You can also spend $25k building a 572 just to wow people and run 12's with it.
Now having said that my favorite engine of all time is the 472 I am swapping into my FJ5 R/T-SE. It is a 4.15 stroke, 10'5-1 compression, very mild (560 lift) solid cam, unported Stage V heads with stock exhaust manifolds, stock intake and carbs. This engine is troublefree, idles like a 318, breaks the tires loose on the racetrack at 80MPH just by flooring the pedal. It gets good fuel mileage but people want to hear it's a 572 or bigger or they won't be impressed these days. Anyone that build a 572 and isn't running deep into the 9's is a poser to be honest.
The one in my orange car is really a bit of a waste. I don't have subframe connectors so even though it's a lot more engine than the one in my green car I can't utilize it without damaging the car. It's a 528 with CNC ported heads, Stage V intake, TTI headers etc. This engine should be running low 10's but it's just a waste in this car. So don't do what I did.

Sheldon


Offline Topcat

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Re: Hemi Build
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2015 - 09:52:14 pm »
I've had a bunch of them for close to 40 years. What's your real intended use? Do you want to put lots of miles on it (like 10,000 or more a year on the freeway)? Is fuel mileage an issue (I'm serious, I downgraded my orange cars Hemi from a 572 to a 528 based on fuel economy concerns)? Do you want to run 10's and have a chassis to do it?
You can get a stock stroke, stock head 426 Hemi into the 10's with the right chassis and very mild mods. You can also spend $25k building a 572 just to wow people and run 12's with it.
Now having said that my favorite engine of all time is the 472 I am swapping into my FJ5 R/T-SE. It is a 4.15 stroke, 10'5-1 compression, very mild (560 lift) solid cam, unported Stage V heads with stock exhaust manifolds, stock intake and carbs. This engine is troublefree, idles like a 318, breaks the tires loose on the racetrack at 80MPH just by flooring the pedal. It gets good fuel mileage but people want to hear it's a 572 or bigger or they won't be impressed these days. Anyone that build a 572 and isn't running deep into the 9's is a poser to be honest.
The one in my orange car is really a bit of a waste. I don't have subframe connectors so even though it's a lot more engine than the one in my green car I can't utilize it without damaging the car. It's a 528 with CNC ported heads, Stage V intake, TTI headers etc. This engine should be running low 10's but it's just a waste in this car. So don't do what I did.

Sheldon

Good points made.

.560-.580 lift. 472-528 ci. solid lift using EDM Johnson lifters.
Beehive valve springs. Go 11.5 to 1 CR if aluminum heads.
10:5 to 1 if Iron. Better thermal efficiency.  :2cents:
Marine intake open chambered intake with dual AFB's are a nice set up.

Ray Barton sells corrected valvetrain geometry heads.  :money:
Contact him and ask about these. No idea what they cost.

Stroked cranks that use the BBC size eliminates the need to notch the skirts.
Roller rocker, roller cam set ups require notching the galley areas for the pushrods.
If you go that far, then aluminum heads and custom rockers and you're going into a $7-8K upgrade.

 High pressure not high volume oil pump is best. again... :2cents:

Very easy to go $25-$30K building Hemi's.  :2cents:

 


Mike, Fremont, CA.


Offline 1970 440 RT's

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Re: Hemi Build
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2015 - 11:07:10 am »
Hi rUNCHARGER, and everyone else...  More detail...

I have a 70 challenger, 440 4 spd stroked to 505 (440source 512kit) Hyd Roller 560/300

Runs great, but has piston slap like EVERY one of the cars I know with this kit has. Specs have been checked and rechecked.  I can't take the sound!
(Apparently it is the 4.25 stroke 4.35 bore in the 440 for some reason. I've heard others don't do it but I ran across this Hemi block so there it is..)
I DEFINITELY want this Hemi NOT to have slap, or as little as possible...

Other problem: I live at 6,000ft, and my 505, while fast, isn't quite good enough up here. ...so I am needing to overcompensate for something...
Oh yeah, the high altitude...   Current engine should be around 625hp, but feels more like 525 up here... I NEED (lol) to ramp it up!
This is a street car, and I like torque!  I don't care about ET, I just like to scare passengers with neck snapping great throttle response. (3:54 Dana)

So anyway, I need as much street guts and grunt as possible.  I thought 572 would help me with my overcompensation, but I 'think' these blocks can not be bored to 4.50.  Anybody says otherwise?  (I will have it sonic checked).  But otherwise, it is already bored and ready at 4.25, so I am thinking budget (on a hemi I know...)  4.25 pistons, 4.5 stroke...?????? 

Here is my basic formula I am considering as a final build.  Everyone pick it apart please!

4.25 bore,  4.50 stroke

Heads:  Edelbrock heads/or INDY SR/ or INDY HiPo   ... Will be OUT OF THE BOX bolt on install..

Cam:  Please recommend

Carbs/intake:  Please recommend

Rocker assy: please recommend

Looking for: in the following order..

1. MAX power on pump gas, like 750hp/tq if I can get it..(remember I lose about 100hp/tq due to altitude!)

2. Budget/bolt on build (yeah I know it is a Hemi but I can spend 35g being fancy.  This block probably can't go 4.5, so I am just going to experiment and learn on this one, and it already comes finish bored at 4.25...)

I hope that answers everyone's questions about what I am after.. Thanks everybody!!!

PS, want to sell/swap me that overdone 528 or 572 crank set up you downgraded from for fuel?  I have this brand new 4.25 finish bore block sitting here...
« Last Edit: August 02, 2015 - 05:45:29 pm by 1970 440 RT's »

Offline rUNCHARGER

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Re: Hemi Build
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2015 - 07:56:22 pm »
In that case you're on the right track. I haven't run them but I would try the Edelbrocks, I don't like Indy's horrible service. Intake I would go a single four dominator. I would run the Stage V rockers (actually myself I would do a set of CNC ported Stage V heads too for what you're doing). Solid roller camshaft speced out by someone smarter than me. 2 1/4 headers.

Sheldon

Offline Topcat

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Re: Hemi Build
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2015 - 08:15:10 pm »
You can still get a ton of power running exhaust manifolds vs. headers.
how much you want to drive it is how you should decide.

You have to decide...maintenance free exhaust manifolds and less heat...cooking parts.

Front end plastic
Rubber
Front end
Clearance issues
Engine compartment heat increase
Less cabin noise

Headers
Better scavenging
Better top end power

Hemi exhaust manifolds are 2 1/2" outlets. The best in the business.   :2cents:
Mike, Fremont, CA.


Offline 73restomod

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Re: Hemi Build
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2015 - 11:07:36 pm »
@ 6000 ft elevation your losing almost 19% (11.8 versus 14.7) of the atmospheric pressure, so you'll lose probably more than 100hp. So remember, It may not feel fast there, but god forbid you head down the mount with it:)

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Hemi Build
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2015 - 01:57:43 pm »
Twin turbo will equalize altitude !! Hemis love forced induction

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t