Author Topic: Six Pack issues and rebuilding  (Read 85145 times)

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: May have over revved the engine- Six Pack fuel issue?
« Reply #105 on: March 07, 2014 - 10:01:08 pm »
I agree the wire works to richen the mix not lean it so with it out it should be leaner
Did you get it to idle down , idle speed will cause run on as will timing & mixture

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Offline tommyg29

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Re: May have over revved the engine- Six Pack fuel issue?
« Reply #106 on: March 08, 2014 - 12:07:00 am »
Started it after getting home from work, and spent the next few hours literally screwing around with it tonight because my rear carb was flooding... turned out the inlet valve threads in the float body were stripped, and after removing that carb to replace the bowl I noticed this for the first time:
correct me if I'm wrong but I dont think those should be there  :clueless: :banghead: :banghead:

« Last Edit: April 08, 2014 - 10:10:31 pm by tommyg29 »
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

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...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline cuda346pk

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Re: May have over revved the engine- Six Pack fuel issue?
« Reply #107 on: March 08, 2014 - 02:13:42 am »
Well according to the Mopar 6 Pack handbook that little tab on the left side at about 7 o'clock was only used on the 340 carbs. You want the rest of that carb I sent you the bowl from. There is a crack in the base right at the hole for the throttle shaft but the body is good and is for a 440. If you take my old carb you will need to take both apart and use the base off yours since mine is cracked. Both of my 340 outboards and the 440 one I am offering has the plates drilled.
I am in the middle of re jetting mine too, I am using an AFR meter and it is still a pain. Started off with 64 inboard and 84 outboard per people at promax carbs. Way too rich, Gonna try the set of 62's inboard and 82's outboard as they are the smallest I have right now. It is confusing to me that both of our outboard metering plate main restrictions were .052" and we have both been recommended to go with #80-84 jets. Looking at Holley's chart the .052" should match up to a #52 or #53 jet. I must be reading something wrong

PS I bought the custom idle screws and adjusting tool from Six-Pack Solutions. I think it was on Moparts but I can find it for sure if you want. Basically he made allen head screws to replace the factory flat head ones and a long straight allen with a handle that has a flat side for counting turns and the ball end is extreme to allow you to adjust the rear ones on the car and it works fine.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2014 - 02:40:28 am by cuda346pk »
David - In Georgia

1972 'Cuda In-Violet 340 6 Pack 4 Speed 3.91 Sure Grip - Finally, after 27 years of waiting and dreaming it is real. Now the fun begins!

Offline tommyg29

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Re: May have over revved the engine- Six Pack fuel issue?
« Reply #108 on: March 08, 2014 - 02:31:04 pm »
good sleuthing David. The list # is 4790 which is for a 340. I didnt see that either.
I just finished putting another bowl back on it and the inlet needle valve must have stuck because 5 seconds after turning on the fuel pump, fuel came flowing out the top vent again.
Pulled that one off and the needle valve seems to stick like it has some debris down in it, and its a brand new valve!
I just put an old valve in it and will see how that one works. I swapped a new o-ring onto it.

Now I know I probably should just break down and get at least one new outboard, and maybe an inboard too.
I may just be chasing rabbits here.
Spent the morning replacing a window and door handle on my daughters camry, otherwise I would hopefully be driving it right now.
Actually, I did drive it a couple times around the block a few days ago, but Thursday night the rear carb waterfalled again. I dont know now if I can ever have peace of mind with this thing now. Even if I get it running, Im gonna be paranoid putting the filter and shaker back on top of it, much less starting it up with a closed hood.

But now.... to check what other differences there are between the 340 and 440 outboards.
Again  :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
« Last Edit: March 08, 2014 - 03:15:20 pm by tommyg29 »
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline tommyg29

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Re: May have over revved the engine- Six Pack fuel issue?
« Reply #109 on: March 08, 2014 - 04:42:51 pm »
David, once again, thanks for the offer, but right now I just want to think and figure out which way I want to go with this.
If I do decide to replace, I dont imagine the "new" or reproduction holley outboards have metering blocks in them.
How easy is it to swap metering blocks into them?
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline cuda346pk

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Re: May have over revved the engine- Six Pack fuel issue?
« Reply #110 on: March 08, 2014 - 08:30:33 pm »
I bought 1 new outboard and the other 2 on mine are newer too. The outboards have the same metering plates the old ones did. I just swapped mine to the promax plates like you have. U can just swap yours over. I think the new carbs are almost just like the old ones other than different bowl screws float valve and inlet filter I think. according to an article i have from chrysler power the other difference between the 340 and 440 carbs are the kill bleeds for controlling the rpm the secondaries start to open, then the springs control how fast they open. The article says small blocks kill bleed is about .046" and big block is about .036"  says the bigger the kill bleeds the later the secondaries open.
I'm not sure where I found this article but try searching for January 1992 Chrysler Power article titled "installation and tuning of the six pak induction system" by Dr Jerry binder.

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David - In Georgia

1972 'Cuda In-Violet 340 6 Pack 4 Speed 3.91 Sure Grip - Finally, after 27 years of waiting and dreaming it is real. Now the fun begins!

Offline tommyg29

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Re: May have over revved the engine- Six Pack fuel issue?
« Reply #111 on: March 08, 2014 - 10:00:25 pm »
will try looking for that read.
Been looking at these ebay outboards. Guy says they have been sitting in their box for "decades" That may be a good or a bad thing.  :clueless:
Theyre for a 1970 but does it really matter if originality isnt important?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321338720222?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline cuda346pk

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Re: May have over revved the engine- Six Pack fuel issue?
« Reply #112 on: March 09, 2014 - 12:23:07 am »
I would think you will want to rebuild them as the gaskets and rubber may be dry rotted but maybe not since no fuel has been in them. They are newer style carbs since they have the 5/16 hex head screws instead of flat heads for the float bowls if that matters to you.
David - In Georgia

1972 'Cuda In-Violet 340 6 Pack 4 Speed 3.91 Sure Grip - Finally, after 27 years of waiting and dreaming it is real. Now the fun begins!

Offline tommyg29

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Re: May have over revved the engine- Six Pack fuel issue?
« Reply #113 on: March 09, 2014 - 11:43:20 am »
I would think you will want to rebuild them as the gaskets and rubber may be dry rotted but maybe not since no fuel has been in them. They are newer style carbs since they have the 5/16 hex head screws instead of flat heads for the float bowls if that matters to you.

so the float bowl screws identify old/new style? Didnt know that. Guy claims new original stock. Dont know exactly what that means  :dunno:
Not caring about originality, do you know the pros and cons of old vs. new style?
Ive heard issues about the repros. Still made by Holley but not as good for some reason?
Screws or bolts doesnt really matter to me. I could always buy replacement bowl screws. Anything I should be aware of with the "new" six packs? For now I would just replace the outboards.... maybe down the road look to replace the main.

Kind of changing the subject here, but its kind of morphing into a "what should I do with my 40 year old carbs" topic.
If I do upgrade, maybe go new, swap the promax meter plates and sell my old stuff to someone who can use them for parts or try to bring them back to life?
« Last Edit: March 09, 2014 - 12:03:32 pm by tommyg29 »
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline cuda346pk

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Re: May have over revved the engine- Six Pack fuel issue?
« Reply #114 on: March 09, 2014 - 12:46:48 pm »
so the float bowl screws identify old/new style? Didnt know that. Guy claims new original stock. Dont know exactly what that means  :dunno:
Not caring about originality, do you know the pros and cons of old vs. new style?
Ive heard issues about the repros. Still made by Holley but not as good for some reason?
Screws or bolts doesnt really matter to me. I could always buy replacement bowl screws. Anything I should be aware of with the "new" six packs? For now I would just replace the outboards.... maybe down the road look to replace the main.

Kind of changing the subject here, but its kind of morphing into a "what should I do with my 40 year old carbs" topic.
If I do upgrade, maybe go new, swap the promax meter plates and sell my old stuff to someone who can use them for parts or try to bring them back to life?

Not sure about any pro's or con's either way. You definitely would want to swap in your promax jet plates. I saw a thread on moparts I believe it was that said the venturi's are different sizes between the 340 and 440 carbs  :dunno: I will try to verify that later today as all mine are off the car right now.
David - In Georgia

1972 'Cuda In-Violet 340 6 Pack 4 Speed 3.91 Sure Grip - Finally, after 27 years of waiting and dreaming it is real. Now the fun begins!

Offline tman

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Re: May have over revved the engine- Six Pack fuel issue?
« Reply #115 on: March 09, 2014 - 01:19:05 pm »
If you wanted to, you could swap out your flat head float bowl screws.  Price for those ebay carbs seem reasonable, compared to new ones.  If it is what is claimed.

Offline tommyg29

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Re: May have over revved the engine- Six Pack fuel issue?
« Reply #116 on: March 09, 2014 - 02:30:21 pm »
I think I made the decision to just pick up a pair of "new" outboards.
I think the best Ive seen for new on ebay is $380 each including shipping.
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline tommyg29

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Re: May have over revved the engine- Six Pack fuel issue?
« Reply #117 on: March 10, 2014 - 06:23:17 pm »
Whats the difference between the 70 and 71 outboards?
If its essentially just the list numbers, and Im swapping out metering plates anyway, and I can get a slightly better deal on the 70's, should I? Cant imagine the engine will care or notice the difference.  :bigsmile:
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline cuda346pk

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Re: May have over revved the engine- Six Pack fuel issue?
« Reply #118 on: March 12, 2014 - 07:42:19 pm »
On the originals there was a change I think in 70 or 71 that changed the shape of the metering plates from 4 sided 6 sided by cutting the bottom 2 corners off. If it's not in the literature I sent u Tommy it's in the 6 pak handbook. I will look when I get home.

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David - In Georgia

1972 'Cuda In-Violet 340 6 Pack 4 Speed 3.91 Sure Grip - Finally, after 27 years of waiting and dreaming it is real. Now the fun begins!

Offline cudabob496

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Re: May have over revved the engine- Six Pack fuel issue?
« Reply #119 on: March 12, 2014 - 08:35:10 pm »
Back in the sixties I wonder how guys kept these 6 pack setups running well?
Seems like a real challenge?
72 Cuda, owned 25 years. 496, with ported Stage VI heads, .625 in solid roller, 254/258 at .050, 3500 stall, 3.91 rear. 850 Holley DP, Reverse manual valve body.

1999 Trans Am, LS1, heads, cam, headers, stall, etc! Love to surprise the rice rockets with this one. They seem so confident, then it's "what the heck just happened?"