Author Topic: Six Pack issues and rebuilding  (Read 61049 times)

Offline tommyg29

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #300 on: November 27, 2014 - 04:11:32 pm »
Thanks
What kind of volts are expected at the positive coil terminal at idle?
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
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Offline onebadfish

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #301 on: November 27, 2014 - 04:53:33 pm »
You're almost there Tommy! Been following this thread since day one and I admire your sticktuativeness!!

Offline tommyg29

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #302 on: November 27, 2014 - 09:17:17 pm »
Thanks.
Its not so much sticktuativeness though.
Ive been dragging on this because I havent had a lot of motivation. I have had lots of time to research and ask questions though!
This thread has been a LOT of help and I hope someone else can learn from this and all the pictures Ive taken.
Looking back its been trial and error (mostly error) and shots in the dark, but knowing what I know now, theres no reason I couldnt have done it all in a few days. Heck, rebuilding the carbs and tuning them can possibly be done in an afternoon if everything goes right. But it never does.  :horse:
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....


Offline HP_Cuda

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #303 on: November 28, 2014 - 01:26:39 pm »

At the coil you should be seeing around 9V when idling.
1970 Cuda Clone 440 4 speed - sublime green
1970 Cuda 383 4 speed - yellow - SOLD

Offline tommyg29

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #304 on: December 05, 2014 - 10:13:49 am »
The car is running much better, but not quite perfect yet.
I replaced the alternator, but the VR wont screw tightly to the firewall. I think the posts may be stripped, as the screws wont fully tighten. I filed the firewall area at point of contact, and put a couple star washers in there to help bite, so I guess Ill try another trick (stuff a small copper wire in the screw hole).
If the VR doesnt have a good ground contact wont that only cause an overcharging condition? My problem seems to be undercharging. At idle yesterday it was reading 12.4 volts and holding steady even at higher rpms. Then restarting it it read 12.38 at all engine speeds. Then restarted a little while later and it read 12.34.
The new alternator tested good in the auto store, and when I put my battery on the battery tender it charges up to about 13.4 and holds there.
Any more on this and I'll post questions to an electrical thread.
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline Strawdawg

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #305 on: December 05, 2014 - 11:47:03 am »
Are you reading the voltages at the back of the alternator?  If not, try that.  One probe on the large battery post and other one on the case.

Offline HP_Cuda

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #306 on: December 05, 2014 - 03:24:10 pm »

Tommy

Hopefully this is not the case but you may need to use larger bolts to hold the VR onto the firewall tightly. Yes if it's loose it will cause an overcharge condition which I experienced lately. Not good, fries electronics and such.

Like Strawdawg said - check the voltages at the back of the alternator and then right at your battery when idling.

Btw, what is your voltage at the coil while idling now?

B
1970 Cuda Clone 440 4 speed - sublime green
1970 Cuda 383 4 speed - yellow - SOLD

Offline tommyg29

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #307 on: December 05, 2014 - 09:37:19 pm »
I did the test from the battery posts to the alternator case and the output post and it reads ok.
I will test the coil tomorrow.
As far as the carbs, I think I am done with Phase 1:

It seems to be idling well now  :jumping: :woohoo:

Now, on to the next step, which I think may have to do with the secondaries, only because I havent done much adjusting with them. Basically, its the jetting, idle screws, float level, mechanical links on the left and vacuum action on the right. Not much else I can do. Anyways, I installed 80 jets front and rear as a start hoping they would be close.
Whats happening still is I am getting dieseling, which I thought couldnt happen with a MSD6AL system, but  :dunno:
Then, sometimes, especially trying to restart the engine just moments after shutting it down after running it a few minutes, it will cough and spit backwards a huge puff of brownish smoke back through the air filter. Tonight it spit what looked like a raincloud into my garage.
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline Strawdawg

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #308 on: December 05, 2014 - 10:53:37 pm »
When you say it reads OK, then I take it that you are seeing about 14 volts


Dieseling is not normally an ignition related problem.  It usually has to do with the throttle blades set too far open at idle, or in some cases, a timing problem
« Last Edit: December 05, 2014 - 10:56:36 pm by Strawdawg »

Offline tommyg29

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #309 on: December 06, 2014 - 03:55:22 pm »
Havent tested electrical yet cause I woke with a bug in my head to mount my contour camera under the hood to watch the vacuum secondary operation. I filmed the vacuum side and it wasnt real eye opening. I was just glad I saw the levers move, though it wasnt as much as I thought they would.
Here is a video from the mechanical drivers side which shows more. They seemed to operate basically on or off, with not much gradual about it, and I think basically only under FULL throttle. They definitely did not gradually kick in.
I have not replaced the vacuum pod rubbers, because they seemed in good shape and the basic test I performed they operated well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASamZkRelcg&feature=youtu.be
« Last Edit: December 06, 2014 - 04:28:17 pm by tommyg29 »
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline HP_Cuda

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #310 on: December 08, 2014 - 04:11:57 am »

Hmm seems like you have an off idle stumble to start with and when the primaries and secondaries open you are fairly smooth.

What kind of squirter is on the primary? Seems to get a healthy shot every time you get on the gas. The only other thing I will say about dieseling is that it could be timing. When is the last time you timed the distributor and checked the plugs and wires.

Just throwing it out there.

 :2thumbs:
1970 Cuda Clone 440 4 speed - sublime green
1970 Cuda 383 4 speed - yellow - SOLD

Offline tommyg29

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #311 on: December 08, 2014 - 09:24:35 am »
Squirter is a 31. Jets are 64 primary and 80s outside. I worked hard to make sure the transition slot shows a small rectangle.
The plugs are new. Ignition MSD with timing around 15/35, but the wires are not new. Maybe I will try a new set.
Are the secondaries supposed to open only under WOT?
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline HP_Cuda

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #312 on: December 08, 2014 - 01:36:38 pm »

Tommy

From what I can hear it sounds like your secondaries are opening just fine. When you draw enough vacuum then the secondary diaphragm will start to open up and is dependent on the type of spring you put in it. If you have the silver springs that is the stock spring. Do not use the black spring in your vacuum setup as this will keep the carb from opening up the secondaries unless you completely stomp on it. The springs are used to try and match the transition from your primaries to your secondaries. It should be smooth, not late or non-existent like the black spring.

Here is the gotcha - you have vacuum secondaries and secondary throttle linkages. So if you stomp it  - yes they will open. But up to a point you will be at the mercy of the vacuum draw to open the secondaries. Think throttle going from 1/4 to 1/2.

Hopefully that helps,
B

p.s. You may have to jet down or change a squirter to get rid of that off idle stumble.
1970 Cuda Clone 440 4 speed - sublime green
1970 Cuda 383 4 speed - yellow - SOLD

Offline tommyg29

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #313 on: December 08, 2014 - 06:58:20 pm »
Just ordered new diaphragms and spring set for the pods since they are over 10 years old and seem worn looking.
Also ordered a new set of 8.5 MSD plug wires.
Sometimes I forget how old the car is, and the fact its a 10 year old resto. It looks new, but the age sometimes matters just as much as the miles, especially with rubber parts.
BTW I cant tell what color my springs are but I think they are a regular unfinished metal/silver color.
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline tommyg29

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #314 on: December 08, 2014 - 07:35:24 pm »
So how do you know when you have the right spring? Start with the stiff and when you feel it kick in on WOT you have the right spring?

And question two, I realize every engine is different, but for those that have tuned a bunch of these, what are the typical idle screw settings. My main is about 7/8 turn, and I have the secondaries at about 1/2 turn out (all equal side to side)
« Last Edit: December 08, 2014 - 07:37:49 pm by tommyg29 »
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....