Author Topic: Six Pack issues and rebuilding  (Read 87611 times)

Offline Strawdawg

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #210 on: April 17, 2014 - 10:31:03 pm »
No need for bolts

Steve





Offline brads70

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #211 on: April 17, 2014 - 10:40:04 pm »
Did a quick search and CP back in 2006 suggested felpro 1215 gasket set.
Is this it:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEL-1215/

This set comes with a new pan, blocking off the exhaust heat ports



That's what I used on my old 440.
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
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http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0

Offline HP_Cuda

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #212 on: April 18, 2014 - 01:59:17 am »
Ditto, just make sure you have a good seal and your white smoke should disappear.

Based on your info about jetting I dont see it running that rich to blow clouds of white smoke.

Use the old bolts and torque them down to spec
1970 Cuda Clone 440 4 speed - sublime green
1970 Cuda 383 4 speed - yellow - SOLD

Offline Strawdawg

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #213 on: April 18, 2014 - 11:43:38 am »
unless your found a lot of oil going into an intake port, I kinda doubt you found the source of the smoke....and that much smoke should have produced a very oily smell

Offline HP_Cuda

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #214 on: April 18, 2014 - 11:56:22 am »

Some times you just have to knock one problem down at a time.

 :2thumbs:
1970 Cuda Clone 440 4 speed - sublime green
1970 Cuda 383 4 speed - yellow - SOLD

Offline tommyg29

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #215 on: April 18, 2014 - 01:11:19 pm »
Car has run fairly well for quite a few years now, up until that night a couple months ago. Ever since then  :bricks1:
But at least I think all my issues are from the manifold up, so it shouldnt be that difficult. Right!? 
I doubt the manifold leak is causing my problems too. Probably not that simple.

When the parts come in next week from summit, I will use the paper gasket beneath the pan, and silicone sealer above.
In the meantime gonna clean up the manifold, make it nice and pretty.
By the way, are these carb gaskets ok, or should I use the ones that have 2 holes?

72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline Strawdawg

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #216 on: April 18, 2014 - 01:28:22 pm »
Some times you just have to knock one problem down at a time.

 :2thumbs:

absolutely true!  I was referring to the clouds of white smoke problem, tho :)  If the manifold was leaking, it should run better without a doubt and it appeared to be leaking from the stuff leaking out which is hard to explain as it should be leaking "in"  :D

I am not convinced the problem is in the carbs...they seemed to be okay until the night he romped on it...??

If it popped back thru the intake, it could have pushed the gasket or blew a power valve....white smoke is very worrisome to me

Valve float could also allow combustion pressure back into the intake...
« Last Edit: April 18, 2014 - 07:19:26 pm by Strawdawg »

Offline tommyg29

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #217 on: April 18, 2014 - 09:44:24 pm »
A few pictures which look disturbing to me for an engine with 7000 miles on it since last gone through, especially the inconsistency of conditions. And now I know why it blows more smoke out the passenger side. #8 in particular seems to sit lower back there where oil is settling. Tried unsuccessfully to get my endoscope snake camera working but these pictures are good enough to give you an idea.
Comments?
PS...these are in order intakes #1 to #8








I always instinctively knew something was amiss with #8, and now I see what. Plugs were always wet when I pulled them, and when the car sits for more than a week or two between starting it, it always would run rough for a couple minutes, and I knew it was from that side.
What do I do here?  :1zhelp:
I am as full of questions as I have pictures. How easy is it to replace the seals, set lash, etc. and are my problems bigger than that?

« Last Edit: April 18, 2014 - 10:11:07 pm by tommyg29 »
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline Strawdawg

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #218 on: April 18, 2014 - 10:50:29 pm »
I would start by making sure the intake is properly sealed....remember:  no silicone.  Use something like Gasgacinch sealer or permatex aviation

Normally, oil past the valve guide will be mostly on the intake side (which coincides with oil past the intake gasket) due to vacuum on that valve...if the guides are worn badly, that can increase the problem...

Hard to see how this particular problem coincides with getting on the car hard one night as this is usually something that gets worse with time.

You should have a strong oil odor coming out the tail pipes and smoke should be very thick

Offline HP_Cuda

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #219 on: April 19, 2014 - 12:31:10 pm »

Those pics definitely show burnt oil on number 8, at least it's confined to number 8 cylinder.

Did you put something into #8 to reduce the flash or something? It does look like the guides might be worn.
1970 Cuda Clone 440 4 speed - sublime green
1970 Cuda 383 4 speed - yellow - SOLD

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #220 on: April 19, 2014 - 01:10:59 pm »
I have had the intake gaskets leak from the bottom so it could just be sucking oil up from the lifter valley below the 6&8 intake runners , the heads may be fine

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline tommyg29

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #221 on: April 19, 2014 - 01:20:47 pm »
#8 has so much oil in it, probably mostly from sitting, that it must be dropping down through the seal. Oil puddles back there around the springs. Also had a small pile of crud only at the base of the #8 intake springs.
Since Ive come this far, might as well replace the seals, at least on the passenger side. I'll search and try to edumacate myself on it

72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline tommyg29

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #222 on: April 30, 2014 - 06:12:05 pm »
Status update.
Got in my manley steel case viton valve seals and a pair of valve cover gaskets.
Now I think I will hold off putting everything back together another week for one reason....my son comes home for a few days between terms in college. He is going to graduate in a year with a mechanical/aerospace engineering degree, and he doesnt have a clue about anything under the hood of a car.  :bigsmile: :bigsmile:
I didnt know much at his age either, but at least I was exposing myself. If only I can get him to pay attention with me for a few hours as if he were in class. :horse:
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline onebadfish

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #223 on: July 06, 2014 - 05:59:28 pm »
I just replaced my intake pan and did a rebuild on the 6-pack. I didn't have any gaskets between the head and pan nor the pan and intake. I used Ultra black Permatex to seal the front and rear of the pan where the flat bars are bolted. Spread a 1/4 inch seam across from one side to the other going up an inch or so on each head. After that, brush both sides of the metal pan with HYLOMAR. It is impervious to gas and will seal your intake pan to the heads and the pan to the intake and make a great seal. I have had no issues doing it this way for years. Just make sure the mating surfaces are clean. Prep is MOST important.

Offline spamtank

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Re: Six Pack issues and rebuilding
« Reply #224 on: July 06, 2014 - 07:59:31 pm »
Hey Onebad,

Thanks for the lead on HYLOMAR.   :thumbsup:  That may be just the stuff I'm looking for to solve a project that has dogged me for a month.   :bricks1:   :bananasmi

Rick, Manchester, NH
1970 SE 383 2V AT Challenger
1977 M882/W200 Power Wagon
2013 RT Plus 6M