Author Topic: Keisler RS 5-Speed  (Read 31301 times)

Offline 73Chally

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Re: Keisler RS 5-Speed
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2010 - 01:05:01 pm »
Sorry about the hijack, and I'm not calling out anyone here, it's more about the link to the Moparts thread.  On that note, I'll drop it.




Offline Mopar_Mudder

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Re: Keisler RS 5-Speed
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2010 - 01:14:57 pm »
No problems with hijack, I am open to all possible options. I have requesting to both Keisler and Passon now for pricing on their products to compare to the TKO-600. Really I have no issue with cutting up the floor to get what ever to fit, car is just a bare body sittin on the rotissory now so it is not a big deal. So the extra money for the Passon unit might be a hard selling seeing as no one has even tried one yet. The 2-3 shift and vibration is my only concern with the TKO, and the Passon could have as many or worse problem that no one will know about until you get it in multiple cars and multiple condintion. That is just a fact, I have no doubt they have done evey thing possible to make it perfect but their is no substitute for real world testing (insert video of the red neck "That thing got a HEMI" guy slamin gears on back road here)
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Offline Cooter

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Re: Keisler RS 5-Speed
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2010 - 02:14:28 pm »
I find it funny when people start touting that "buy American" stuff, then in the same breath, they shop at Wally World where they hire illegals and import ALmost ALL China CRAP....Of course, I see ALOT of people here buying the hell out of Overseas Stroker "kits" for $2500.00 when an American made stroker CRANK ALONE would cost you Around $3000.00.....I can think of a few right off..There's Kellogg, Callais, Crower, etc...Yet, when it comes right down to it, those Stealth heads are selling like HOT CAKES....We all know where they are made....


I think it's cool to tout "buy American" when the price is right, but when that price is a little out of reach for you, we all know where you'll be "Buying".....That Tremec (TKO KIT) 5-speed costs $4500.00 and you have to account for the cost of all the "Conversion" parts that you will need to make it work....The Passon unit, while a good unit, it costs $4300.00 and you don't need anything else just the transmission....So, provided you have access to a machine shop and can make the other parts you will need to convert the TKO trans in your car barring the bellhousing, one could get a TKO 600 in their B/E/A body for alot less than the $4500.00 they are asking for that "plug and play" kit deal....
« Last Edit: December 27, 2010 - 10:21:27 pm by Cooter »
1958 plymouth Belvedere 2dr hd top "Christine" [OO)====V====(OO]
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Offline Mopar_Mudder

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Re: Keisler RS 5-Speed
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2010 - 02:53:22 pm »
That Tremec (TKO KIT) 5-speed costs $4500.00 and you have to account for the cost of all the "Conversion" parts that you will need to make it work....The Passion unit, while a good unit, it costs $4300.00 and you don't need anything else just the transmission....So, provided you have access to a machine shop and can make the other parts you will need to convert the TKO trans in your car barring the bellhousing, one could get a TKO 600 in their B/E/A body for alot less than the $4500.00 they are asking for that "plug and play" kit deal....

not sure exacty what you are at here. The TKO for 4500 would include: bell housing, flywheel, clutch, tranny, crossmember,drive shaft, shifter, pretty much everything you need excpet clutch linkage or hydrolic clutch. The Passon unit is just the tranny and shifter, you still have to get everything else. If you already have the rest well then that is another story. Where I am going from I have nothing to start with, I need it all. Well I have the 4 speed hump and pedals I guess  :grinyes:
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Offline IMNCARN82

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Re: Keisler RS 5-Speed
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2010 - 03:02:02 pm »
I purchased my unit from Tony at Classic mopar 5 speed. It was slightly used,And as a kit.  For 1900.00 bucks.   :2cents:   
'73 340 5 speed,RMS,BAER,... "Supercuda" (O[   ]||||[   ]O)  
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Offline go-fish

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Re: Keisler RS 5-Speed
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2010 - 03:08:52 pm »
not sure exacty what you are at here. The TKO for 4500 would include: bell housing, flywheel, clutch, tranny, crossmember,drive shaft, shifter, pretty much everything you need excpet clutch linkage or hydrolic clutch. The Passon unit is just the tranny and shifter, you still have to get everything else. If you already have the rest well then that is another story. Where I am going from I have nothing to start with, I need it all. Well I have the 4 speed hump and pedals I guess  :grinyes:

I was just going to post the same thing at the same time. "Conversion" parts as Cooter said, COME with the TKO Perfect Fit kit. I would like to take this past the TKO transmission anyway, I have one, it's been good and the only down fall is the 2-3 shift. Keisler knows this and is using their capital and coming out with the RS600 which is supposed to require no cutting of the trans tunnel like the TKO kit does.

Cooter seems to like the Passon kit, not "Passion", and it sounds like a good tranny and he knows his 833's but they, and McLeod, have been claiming to be close to market for two years. How long had tey been working on these boxes before they announced they had a 5 speed coming to market? Wanna talk conversion parts? No matter what kit you want to go with you are still going to need the same conversion parts. 4 speed hump for auto cars, driveshaft, .....

So, who can build a better mousetrap? Seeing as how Keisler has the project manager from Borg Warner's T45 or T56 on the RS600 project I think they have some people that know a thing or two. They are a bigger company and have more experience in 5 speeds, a bigger customer base, better logistics, and they can actually get a transmission to market.

I am pretty sure I read that the RS600 can handle over 600 lb/ft. More so than the TKO and it has silky shifts, not the notchy 2-3 TKO shift. That power rating is also 600 lb/ft more than the McLeod or Passon can currently handle.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2010 - 12:47:02 pm by go-fish »

Offline go-fish

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Re: Keisler RS 5-Speed
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2010 - 03:17:37 pm »
FWIW, My TKO-500 (cryo'ed internals by Modular Mustang Racing - the people with the worlds fastest "door slammer" 5 speed Mustang) stands up to my 650 hp and 589 lb/ft of tq. I've ran it hard too. It's just that 2-3 shift that has me looking for a better mousetrap. I've been treated well by Keisler and they were never trying to hide the fact that all TKO's, not just their Perfect Fit kit, has a notchy 2-3 shift.

Offline _Russ_

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Re: Keisler RS 5-Speed
« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2010 - 03:26:42 pm »
So exactly what is the actual problem with the 2-3 shift on the TKO?

Always see it referred too, but no-one ever seems to get specific.

Offline IMNCARN82

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Re: Keisler RS 5-Speed
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2010 - 03:35:08 pm »
Under high RPM's the tko's become hard to shift from 2-3. I've found that not slamming them is helpful. They are very close together. Relax and shift the car. Get used to it. There is a touch to it that takes some practice.  I've lost a few little street light romps as a result. And am all ears on this.  But i've been fighting my own bad vibes... :banghead:
'73 340 5 speed,RMS,BAER,... "Supercuda" (O[   ]||||[   ]O)  
'69 Dodge Charger 383,Auto                  (OiiiiiiiiiiIiiiiiiiiiiO)
13' Challenger R/T BlacktoP  6spd. (OO________OO)
71' Demon
75' Duster
87' Conquest TSI
56' Plaza
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Offline go-fish

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Re: Keisler RS 5-Speed
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2010 - 03:50:18 pm »
I too have lost a few heads ups due to the missed 3rd gear. I don't have any vibration issues ???

The problem with the 2-3 is a design flaw from Tremec. Under normal driving it is no problem, when you are speed shifting it seems like you can't "find" 3rd. This has never been denied or hidden from any consumers. People like to itch about it and claim that it has been mis-represented. It's just a fact, TKO's have a not so smooth 2-3 shift. A transmission guru could most likely explain it simpy. My way of explaining it is that it's just hard to shift into third when at high RPM. Again, unless you're racing, it's not much of an issue.

Offline _Russ_

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Re: Keisler RS 5-Speed
« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2010 - 07:31:37 pm »
OK, cool. Thanks for clearing it up.

Offline KEISLER

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Re: Keisler RS 5-Speed
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2010 - 08:26:47 pm »
Hi All -

Thanks to Go-Fish who asked me to join the discussion and provide information about our new product line - the Keisler RS 5-Speed.  Please click this link to learn more.  Join our Newsletter to stay in touch with developments and specials on the RS 5-Speed.

The article below is from our Dec 2010 newsletter.  It is written by well known Mopar editor and historian Geoff Stunkard.


The All-New Keisler RS Series Takes PRI by Storm! 
By Geoff Stunkard - Quarter Milestones Publishing

The crowds that attended the 23rd annual Performance and Racing Industry (or PRI) in Orlando, Florida on December 9-11 got an exciting first-hand look at a group of new five speed transmissions for universal rear-wheel-drive applications up to 600 ft-lbs torque. This event, which focuses exclusively on performance hardware, was the perfect place for Keisler Engineering to debut their new RS Series line, which is superceding previous offerings with all-new internals, PerfectFit packages, more optional levels, and price points for every budget.

The RS stands for Rallye Sport, a term that quite adequately describes the functional use of these new units. Three years in the making, the RS Series is targeted toward street/highway applications, plus drag racing, road courses, and autocrossing. There are three primary factors which Shafi Keisler, Pres/CEO, says will establish the RS 5-speed to be the leading choice of transmission over previous offerings:

1. Fitment: An all-new aluminum case designed with American classic cars, street rods and kit cars in mind is the hallmark of the RS. For example, owners of 1964-72 Chevelle & GTO will get both the perfect shifter position and driveline angle with no cutting or alteration of the floor tunnel.  Similar benefits exist for applications like 1955-57 Bel Air, '62-74 Nova, 1966-70 Charger/Road Runner/Coronet, Ford Fairlane/Torino, and numerous other apps that required cutting of the floor tunnel to fit Keisler's previous offerings (including the Tremec TKO).  In fact, any of the PerfectFit shifter positions - of which there are more than 15 - are standard on the transmission at no additional cost. Moreover, the new main case (available Q2/2011) uses a revised shift system to provide a height reduction of nearly inch over the current RS main case, and features no less than three bellhousing bolt patterns: GM Muncie/T10, Toploader, and Chrysler A833. This means less cost and easier adaptation.

2. World Class Shift Quality: Through the adaptation of double cone, carbon fiber lined steel synchronizers, the RS Series provides a dramatically better shift quality than previous offerings using single cone brass synchro rings (Tremec TKO).  The RS can cleanly shift at 7000rpm, with low shift effort.  Additionally, the new guide plate and single rail architecture provides precise clean guided shifts, and NO missed 2-3 shifts - a common problem among TKO owners. 

3. Exceptional Value: Pricing starts at just $2299 for a complete RS400 PerfectFit Kit tailored specifically for your application. The RS500 PF kit runs just $2599, and the RS600 PF kit runs $2999.  And all of these prices include a transmission, dynamic balanced driveshaft, crossmember, isolator mount, speedometer cable with calibrated gear, backup light wiring, needle roller pilot bearing, grade 5 & 8 hardware, fully illustrated manual, and 3-year blanket warranty coverage.
But these are not the only major changes, because Keisler brings a more durable set of internals than were previously available as well. For instance, the input shafts in all RS500 & 600 transmissions are made from 9310 chrome nickel moly steel, and the gears are CNC-ground in the United States. Close and wide ratios designs are available. Starting with the RS 400, rated for any application up to 400 lbs-ft torque, the unit uses a 1 1/16 x 10-spline input shaft. The stouter RS 500 and 600 units use an even heftier 1 1/8 x 26-spline input shaft, handling power outputs of 500 and 600 lbs-ft torque, respectively. The RS400 & 500 gear ratios run the standard ratio first gear (3.37) which is ideal for small block and mild big block running differential ratios up to 3.73. The RS600 uses the new close ratio gearset (2.80 1st) which minimizes RPM drop between the 1st-2nd gear change. The accompanying chart will show you exactly what ratios come in each unit.

More importantly, as mentioned, Keisler is using double-cone synchronizers in the RS unit. Most transmissions in the aftermarket - including Tremec, Richmond, Doug Nash, and niche-built units - still use the older single-cone brass synchro ring, technology which dates back to the 1950s. Not only does the RS use dual-cone synchronizers for even smoother high RPM shifts in first and second gears, but these are carbon fiber-lined onto steel blocker rings for excellent durability - a high tech material developed by 3M and Borg Warner in the late 90s. Another welcome feature is the synchronized reverse which eliminates the gear grind found in many other aftermarket transmissions (Tremec, Richmond, and niche-built).

Moving into the shifter area, the RS makes use of Keisler's unique milled internal guide plate, which allows forceful shifts without fear of going from 2nd to 5th gear. Shifted internally, the RS transmission uses a single top shift rail, allowing the RS to be built much narrower than units like the Tremec are. The new RS tailshaft has provisions  for over 15 different shifter locations; any are possible at no additional charge.  Like previous transmissions in Keisler's PerfectFit kits, this will allow the transmission to be offered as a ready-to-use package with design advantages specific for your vehicle.

The new tailshaft housing will be joined by a new main housing in 2011's second quarter, as testing continues on ensuring that this new casting will be the best possible; in the meantime, main cases will be based on the Borg-Warner T45 . Again, the narrow design was critical to choosing this over wider examples when considering fitment into the widest variety of applications. For GM and Ford applications, the shifter is simply moved to the proper location on the tailshaft housing before shipping; housings for Chrysler torsion-bar vehicles will be milled to clear the factory supports in those applications, again with the shifter placed for your car's specific location so little to no modification to the car is required. Indeed, possible offsets on the RS are 3.5"wide and a large 13" long. Whether as a direct replacement for the transmission in your musclecar, or being custom-adapted to your street rod or kit car, there will be an RS solution to you.

Other features are mechanical and electronic speedometer options, as well as mechanical or hydraulic clutch releaser configurations. The latter adaptation can be done without having to reseal the input shaft bearing retainer, making changeover a breeze.

Finally, pricing on the new units has been done to help the buyer get the best value in the current economy. For folks that need just a transmission and not a complete PerfectFit kit, pricing starts at just $1499.00 for the RS 400.  And for the popular Fox body, SN95 and newer Mustangs, Keisler has the RS400 with integral bellhousing for just 1399.00.

The unit was well-received at the event, with hundreds of attendees looking over this exciting new product. Indeed, the producers from PowerTV.com even filmed a feature on the RS for their online programming, and Keisler Engineering will have the latest developments shown on KeislerTV.com as well. Check it out, then call them to get your build program into overdrive with the latest in transmission technology!

Geoff Stunkard is an author, magazine editor, and photographer with 25 years experience in the automotive aftermarket. Media company clients include Source Interlink, Amos, J.R. Thompson, Good Communications, and others. Contact him at qmpeditor@quartermilestones.com
 
Your emails and comments are welcome.  Please call us at 888-609-0070 x1 and join our newsletter above to stay in touch with the latest news.

Thank you!

Shafi Keisler, Pres/CEO
Keisler Engineering
Serving the Market Since 1991 with over 14,000 transmissions sold!

Offline KEISLER

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Re: Keisler RS 5-Speed
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2010 - 08:38:55 pm »

Here is some pricing information about the Keisler RS 5-speed:

RS400 (400 torque) complete PerfectFit kits are $2295

RS500 (500 torque) complete PerfectFit kits are $2595

RS600 (600 torque) complete PerfectFit kits are $2995

RS PerfectFit Kit includes:  RS 5-speed transmission, balanced driveshaft with slip yoke, crossmember (mounts to torsion bar crossmember as original), isolator mount, pilot bearing, reverse lamp wiring connector, grade 5 & 8 mounting hardware, machining of your bellhousing at no charge (or a discount on our new bellhousings), fully illustrated step by step instruction manual, and 1 Year Product Warranty with 2 Years to activate.

Mopar B-body will be shipping in February.  Mopar A-body & E-body will be shipping afterwards.

Trade in program for TKO exists - inquire.

Thanks!

Shafi Keisler, Pres/CEO
Keisler Engineering

Offline Challenger III

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Re: Keisler RS 5-Speed
« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2010 - 08:48:03 pm »
 :popcorn:
Mike    Yakima, Washington

Resto Thread:  http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=66668.0

Offline Mopar_Mudder

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Re: Keisler RS 5-Speed
« Reply #29 on: December 29, 2010 - 09:32:06 am »
Thank you for the info Shafi, I sent in a quote request a week ago and haven't heard anything, any idea where it might be. I know the holidays mess stuff up.

greener@chibardun.net

1971 Hemi Cuda

2005 SRT-10 Regular Cab Flame Red.   12.771 @ 109.67 <-----Time Slip --Video
Mopar: Headers, Exhaust, Ram Air, ECM

2008 3500 Mega Cab Dually, Resistal Edition