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Chryco's Tech Shop => The Body Shop => Topic started by: 06Daytona on June 01, 2012 - 05:39:40 pm

Title: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
Post by: 06Daytona on June 01, 2012 - 05:39:40 pm
I have a friend down here in Puerto Rico who really wants a 70 Challenger but is too impatient to wait for one to come up for sale, and too cheap to pay the million I want for mine.

He ended up picking up a 72 and wants to change it over. I already told him it's going to be huge dollars to do that but he insists on it, and who am I to complain when he wants to get the parts through me. He already knows he's going to need the grille, fender lights, headlight brackets/buckets the tail panel with all the bits and pieces, but he's not sure what else he's going to need for the conversion and neither am I.
I told him he's probably going to have problems finding the headlight buckets unless he can find an old set of fenders which I may have a line on.

If anyone has ever done this, I'd love to hear everything that was needed to make it work. He's stopping by my house tomorrow to show me his list of parts and let me add whatever he's missed.
Title: Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
Post by: Super Blue 72 on June 01, 2012 - 05:44:35 pm
How "correct" does he want to make it? 

The seats I think are also different.  If you go with the Rallye gauges the '70-71 gauges are different than the '72-'74 gauges unless you get an early '72 that has the earlier style.
Title: Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
Post by: 06Daytona on June 01, 2012 - 05:57:37 pm
He's only worried about the outside. He has a 2009 Challenger in dark blue and wants to paint the old one the same color
Title: Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
Post by: MEK-Dangerfield on June 01, 2012 - 06:26:16 pm
If he is just worried about outside, the side marker lights are different, both front and rear. The front's will be taken care of if he gets 70 fenders, but I don't know how the rears would work.   :clueless:  Another thing I can think of, the "Challenger" script is on the rear quarter panel of a 72 and on the front fender of a 70.

I'll just assume he is good at welding and body work to pull this off.
Title: Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
Post by: 06Daytona on June 01, 2012 - 06:31:08 pm
Right now he's only worried about getting the car looking like a 70. I don't think he's even started thinking about script and moldings. I told him to pick up a few bottles of tylenol too since I can see this becoming one big headache. I know where there's the back half of a Challenger that I might be able to get the fender light out of, if I don't buy it and turn it into a trailer.
Title: Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
Post by: Challenger6pak on June 01, 2012 - 09:37:09 pm
I deal with this a lot.  When you figure the cost of buying the 72-74 and converting it you may be able to buy a 70 with the same money and have less work to do the car.  To make it 'look' like a 70 but not be 100% correct on the outside you need several things.  Starting at the rear.  The tail light panel and tail lights are different.  The 70 has a steel bumper filler.  The side marker lights are different (front and rear).  The grille is different.  The headlight bezels are different.  The hood latch is different.  You need good 70 fenders or good 72 fenders and 70 parts fenders to create a good 70 fender for each side of the car.  The hood moulding is different.  You need to move the horns from the hood latch support to the inner fender.  Changing these things will make it look like a 70.  If a Challenger is a 73 or 74 both the front and rear bumpers and brackets will need changed to the 70 style.  To give the inside a 70 look you will need 70 seats, console, dash pad, dash trim, headliner, sunvisors, rear view mirror, and seat belts.  To use the 70 sunvisors the mounting hole needs enlarged in the 72.  The 70 headliner uses different bows and mounts.  These are the main differences.  There are far more differences.  Have your buddy price these parts.  Then have him add it to the cost of the 72.  Then see if you can find a 70 for the same cost. 
Title: Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
Post by: ChallengerHK on June 01, 2012 - 09:44:46 pm
If you just do the taillight housings and lenses, rear panel, headlight bezels, grille, and then switch to 70 headlight buckets, it'll look very similar to a 70 except to somebody who knows Mopars and is paying close attention. I gather that he wants it to look like a 70 "at a glance" but not to stand up under scrutiny. This would do that.

Even then, he'd probably do well to drill out the bumper brackets, or get 70 brackets and move the bumpers in to the body.
Title: Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
Post by: 06Daytona on June 01, 2012 - 10:34:03 pm
He's only really interested in the grille and the tail panel. I don't think he's going to care if the fender lights, bumpers etc are wrong, as long as he has the front and back looking rightish. I remember reading somewhere that the header panel needs some chopping for things to work out right. I guess he's going to find out as he goes.
Title: Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
Post by: ChallengerHK on June 01, 2012 - 11:22:34 pm
72-74 header is fiberglass, and buckets mount to it. 70 buckets mount directly to the fenders. I think that will be his biggest challenge.
Title: Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
Post by: Challenger6pak on June 01, 2012 - 11:55:26 pm
The 72 bumpers are basically the same as 70.  The 73 & 74 bumpers need moved back.  You will need the bucket assembly that is welded into the 70 fender.  I have done several cars this way and just filled in the side marker lights. 
Title: Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
Post by: 06Daytona on June 03, 2012 - 11:20:52 am
He stopped by on Saturday with a list of the parts he needs. He seems to have it all figured out although I still think he's going to have troubles and end up with a hack job looking car. He found fibreglass headlight brackets online that I've never seen before and I was wondering if anyone has any experience with them.
Title: Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
Post by: Challenger6pak on June 03, 2012 - 12:06:09 pm
The 'glass buckets are for 'glass fenders.  It may be trouble in the long run attaching them to steel fenders. He could just use a complete glass front end.
Title: Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
Post by: Super Blue 72 on June 03, 2012 - 05:08:35 pm
The 'glass buckets are for 'glass fenders.  It may be trouble in the long run attaching them to steel fenders. He could just use a complete glass front end.

Several years ago on craigslist there was tilt nose '70 Challenger front end, needed a little glass work on the front bumper area. 

No one bought it for $700 so the guy dropped it to $50.  Should have picked it up just for kicks!  :banghead:
Title: Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
Post by: 1970 RT Challenger 1970 on June 03, 2012 - 09:33:29 pm
It's just like putting Lipstick on a Pig!  :roflsmiley:

It just seems wrong to make a '72 a '70. It's a creation (or abortion!) of something it's not.
Title: Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
Post by: 72bluNblu on June 04, 2012 - 03:38:07 am
It's just like putting Lipstick on a Pig!  :roflsmiley:

It just seems wrong to make a '72 a '70. It's a creation (or abortion!) of something it's not.


So, that would be about the same as taking one of the TEN THOUSAND slant 6 Challengers they built in 1970 and putting a V8 in it right? Or maybe like putting a big block in a small block car? Gosh, what about all those jerks with '70 Challengers that add R/T or T/A badges! Making it something it's not? They built more Challengers in 1970 than they did in 1972, 73, and 74 COMBINED. Which ones are rare?  :poopoke:



The swap is pretty involved to do it right, even just on a cosmetic level.

The headlight buckets are the biggest issue, since the '72 fenders don't have buckets. Its easier just to get '70/'71 fenders, otherwise you'll have to find buckets. The fiberglass ones are a disaster with metal fenders, as you'll have to use screws or rivets to attach them. Not good.

The grille header panel also has to change, as well as the hood latch support structure, and the hood latch release, since they're designed to work with their corresponding grille.

Then you need the grille itself and the bezels. Also, remember that a '72 has painted hood trim, not chrome, so it won't match the bezels. It also mounts differently to the hood if I remember correctly, so its not quite as easy as buying '70 hood trim and bolting it to the '72 hood. The trim on the front valance is also different.

You can get metal headlight brackets and side marker patches from B/E&A, but I don't know how hard it would be to get them to ship to you where you're at. And they aren't cheap! They want $317 for the buckets. Side marker patches are $49, a little easier to deal with.

http://beaparts.com/default.asp (http://beaparts.com/default.asp)
(http://beaparts.com/images/item_images/223.jpg)
(http://beaparts.com/images/item_images/215-B.jpg)

Also, if your buddy is interested, I have an original set of '70/'71 headlight buckets for a Challenger. I was going to use them to clone my '72 to a '71, but I found a set of fenders instead. Shipping would probably be a pain though. PM me if you're interested though, maybe we can figure something out. They would spot weld into the '72 fenders just like they did on the '70/'71 fenders. 

Then of course there's the tail lights, which requires a whole different tail panel, not to mention the entire tail light assembly. There's a TON of other differences, but just to make the outside look like a '70 is pretty involved. The list of parts to clone my '72 to a '71 so far looks like this

'70/'71 front fenders
'71 Grille
'71 headlight bezels
'71 header panel
'71 hood latch support
'71 hood latch release
'70/'71 hood with latch
'70/'71 side marker quarter panel patches
'71 Rallye gauges with 8k tach
'71 only wide hood trim (no, I didn't need it to make it a '71, but it does look nice!)

I'm sure I'll find some other things when I try to mount that grile in there. Some of my list was a little easier to rationalize- my original fenders have rust in the dog legs, so buying a set of good condition '70/'71 fenders actually made my bodywork easier.

And I'm not swapping the tail panel, because I like the '72-'74 tail lights better. Plus, since my '72 was actually built in 1971 and therefore has a 1971 build date, I want something on the car to keep it from being passed off as a real 1971.
Title: Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
Post by: 1970 RT Challenger 1970 on June 04, 2012 - 03:12:13 pm
So, that would be about the same as taking one of the TEN THOUSAND slant 6 Challengers they built in 1970 and putting a V8 in it right?


No, you have it azz backwards!  :roflsmiley:

That would be like taking a 70 or 71 and making it into a 72-74. Not right again. Not that anyone in their right mind would do that.  :bigsmile:

We're talking body mods, but I'll wander off the path too. I have no trouble with engine swapping or clones.

Would you take an original Hemi Car, pull the Hemi and put a Slant Six into it?

Now back to the 72 to a 70. Did I say Resale Value? A car like that would be on the VERY bottom of my to buy list. Everyone has their own ideas. :)

Back to the Lipstick on a Pig. There's a song by Trooper called 3 dressed up as a 9!  :poopoke:

3 Dressed Up As A 9 by Trooper (studio version with lyrics) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQhn2sy8r5g#)





Title: Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
Post by: tonefiend on June 04, 2012 - 05:45:23 pm
What is wrong with a '72?  Do '70 Challengers really sell for that much more?  It seems like the conversion will cost a few grand and now the car will be a mutt worth less money.  Doesn't make sence to me. He should buy a '70 if thats what he wants.
Title: Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
Post by: 06Daytona on June 04, 2012 - 06:56:54 pm
I agree. He was too impatient when he bought. He went out and looked at 3 or 4 cars and wasn't willing to wait for a 70 to get on the market. Personally, I think the picked one of the worse cars to change because the car he bought has orange and white interior and he wants to change it over to black. One of the cars he looked at was white with black interior and it would have cost him less in the long run. I had to wait a year or two for a 70 to come up that I liked  and that I could drive home with nothing needed other than a few gremlin evictions.
When he's finished if he decides to sell he's going to lose piles of money on it because it's really a custom designed for one person. My Cuda is going from a 72 to looking like a 71 but I'm putting alot of effort and money into the finished product. I have no intention of ever selling my car and when I'm finished it's going to be my dream car, so all the time and effort is worth it to me.
Title: Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
Post by: Challenger6pak on June 05, 2012 - 09:53:31 pm
I see you read my post.  LOL.  The hood latch supports that I have used were all the same.  You can use any year of hood.

I deal with this a lot.  When you figure the cost of buying the 72-74 and converting it you may be able to buy a 70 with the same money and have less work to do the car.  To make it 'look' like a 70 but not be 100% correct on the outside you need several things.  Starting at the rear.  The tail light panel and tail lights are different.  The 70 has a steel bumper filler.  The side marker lights are different (front and rear).  The grille is different.  The headlight bezels are different.  The hood latch is different.  You need good 70 fenders or good 72 fenders and 70 parts fenders to create a good 70 fender for each side of the car.  The hood moulding is different.  You need to move the horns from the hood latch support to the inner fender.  Changing these things will make it look like a 70.  If a Challenger is a 73 or 74 both the front and rear bumpers and brackets will need changed to the 70 style.  To give the inside a 70 look you will need 70 seats, console, dash pad, dash trim, headliner, sunvisors, rear view mirror, and seat belts.  To use the 70 sunvisors the mounting hole needs enlarged in the 72.  The 70 headliner uses different bows and mounts.  These are the main differences.  There are far more differences.  Have your buddy price these parts.  Then have him add it to the cost of the 72.  Then see if you can find a 70 for the same cost.
So, that would be about the same as taking one of the TEN THOUSAND slant 6 Challengers they built in 1970 and putting a V8 in it right? Or maybe like putting a big block in a small block car? Gosh, what about all those jerks with '70 Challengers that add R/T or T/A badges! Making it something it's not? They built more Challengers in 1970 than they did in 1972, 73, and 74 COMBINED. Which ones are rare?  :poopoke:



The swap is pretty involved to do it right, even just on a cosmetic level.

The headlight buckets are the biggest issue, since the '72 fenders don't have buckets. Its easier just to get '70/'71 fenders, otherwise you'll have to find buckets. The fiberglass ones are a disaster with metal fenders, as you'll have to use screws or rivets to attach them. Not good.

The grille header panel also has to change, as well as the hood latch support structure, and the hood latch release, since they're designed to work with their corresponding grille.

Then you need the grille itself and the bezels. Also, remember that a '72 has painted hood trim, not chrome, so it won't match the bezels. It also mounts differently to the hood if I remember correctly, so its not quite as easy as buying '70 hood trim and bolting it to the '72 hood. The trim on the front valance is also different.

You can get metal headlight brackets and side marker patches from B/E&A, but I don't know how hard it would be to get them to ship to you where you're at. And they aren't cheap! They want $317 for the buckets. Side marker patches are $49, a little easier to deal with.

[url]http://beaparts.com/default.asp[/url] ([url]http://beaparts.com/default.asp[/url])
([url]http://beaparts.com/images/item_images/223.jpg[/url])
([url]http://beaparts.com/images/item_images/215-B.jpg[/url])

Also, if your buddy is interested, I have an original set of '70/'71 headlight buckets for a Challenger. I was going to use them to clone my '72 to a '71, but I found a set of fenders instead. Shipping would probably be a pain though. PM me if you're interested though, maybe we can figure something out. They would spot weld into the '72 fenders just like they did on the '70/'71 fenders. 

Then of course there's the tail lights, which requires a whole different tail panel, not to mention the entire tail light assembly. There's a TON of other differences, but just to make the outside look like a '70 is pretty involved. The list of parts to clone my '72 to a '71 so far looks like this

'70/'71 front fenders
'71 Grille
'71 headlight bezels
'71 header panel
'71 hood latch support
'71 hood latch release
'70/'71 hood with latch
'70/'71 side marker quarter panel patches
'71 Rallye gauges with 8k tach
'71 only wide hood trim (no, I didn't need it to make it a '71, but it does look nice!)

I'm sure I'll find some other things when I try to mount that grile in there. Some of my list was a little easier to rationalize- my original fenders have rust in the dog legs, so buying a set of good condition '70/'71 fenders actually made my bodywork easier.

And I'm not swapping the tail panel, because I like the '72-'74 tail lights better. Plus, since my '72 was actually built in 1971 and therefore has a 1971 build date, I want something on the car to keep it from being passed off as a real 1971.
Title: Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
Post by: Challenger6pak on June 05, 2012 - 10:00:53 pm

When he's finished if he decides to sell he's going to lose piles of money on it because it's really a custom designed for one person. My Cuda is going from a 72 to looking like a 71 but I'm putting alot of effort and money into the finished product. I have no intention of ever selling my car and when I'm finished it's going to be my dream car, so all the time and effort is worth it to me.
The way I see people not losing money by doing the conversion to the 70 is when the car is built as a pro touring type car.  That way the car is a custom/ street rod/ hot rod type of car that has a total different purpose that a restored car does not have.  At that point how it is built and looks can be more important than what year the VIN says the car is.
Title: Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
Post by: dodj on June 05, 2012 - 11:31:22 pm
What is wrong with a '72?
Nothing. Some '70 guys get their back up when they figure out they have the most common Challenger out there..... :stirpot:
Title: Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
Post by: tonefiend on June 06, 2012 - 05:04:57 am
Nothing. Some '70 guys get their back up when they figure out they have the most common Challenger out there..... :stirpot:

They're rarer for a reason.  :angelwings: :cheers:
Title: Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
Post by: dodj on June 06, 2012 - 11:46:28 am
They're rarer for a reason.  :angelwings: :cheers:
I knew that was comin'  :smilielol:
Title: Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
Post by: 1970 RT Challenger 1970 on June 06, 2012 - 02:15:40 pm
Why not graft in a '48 Chrysler Coupe front end on a 72 E Body?
Same thing and idea as a '72 to '70 graft.
Neither front end or back end years match!
Just like a GI Joe with his body from the waist up and with Barbies Legs! GI Jolene!  :bigsmile:
Looks great in a WTS ad!   :thumbsup:

Title: Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
Post by: tonefiend on June 07, 2012 - 01:37:07 am
I like all the years but it seems like there are so many '70s out there it would be cheaper to get one to start with.
Title: Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
Post by: Jshiro on November 21, 2012 - 04:30:05 am
Well all I can say is I love my '72. I think she looks fantastic. I love the 70 model as well. I think that your friend should do what ever he wants. If he is up for a challenge and wants to convert the car to look like a 70 then why not?  If its not a numbers matching car anyway, and this will make him love his car more, I say he should go for it. I don't really think we are Mopar fans simply because we want to sell the damn things. ( Hell, I'm going to be buried in mine!) Feel free to change the look.
Obviously someone wanting to buy a genuine 1970 wont be interested, but someone looking for an awesome street car would love it.  I'm looking forward to the progress pics!!

I love Mopars. Don't care what face they have.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-pbu_Gr_pQF8/UKJGvvJvrWI/AAAAAAAAATo/4eMyOw4PpXo/s1600/yellow%2B1972%2Bdodge%2Bchallerger329.JPG)
Title: Re: Changing a 72 to a 70 Challenger
Post by: Super Blue 72 on November 22, 2012 - 08:26:33 am
Sweet looking car, Jshiro!  :thumbsup: