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Chryco's Tech Shop => Transmission and Drivetrain => Topic started by: Travis72 on March 07, 2010 - 09:43:31 pm

Title: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: Travis72 on March 07, 2010 - 09:43:31 pm
FYI... I thought I would post this since I haven't seen anyone mention it.  McLeod is trying to come out with their own new 5-speed manual transmission.  The one article says it was designed with Mopar owners in mind because it should fit without cutting up the floorboards. 

http://www.bangshift.com/blog/Bangshift-Approved-The-McLeod-M-800-5-Speed-Transmission.html

http://www.stangtv.com/forum/mcleod-hits-high-gear-their-new-6035.html

Travis
72 Cuda
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: challngd73 on March 07, 2010 - 11:26:28 pm
good info.  cant find their website though.
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: Topcat on March 07, 2010 - 11:37:56 pm
good info.  cant find their website though.

Some kind of database error.

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www.mcleodind.com/ - Similar
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: bb71challenger on March 07, 2010 - 11:49:48 pm
Sounds cool. Both sites loaded for me.
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: 73EStroker on March 09, 2010 - 08:55:23 pm
This ticks me -  :violin: - nothing wrong with it but I just bought a Passon for more money and only get 4. :hyper: Wish I had known about this coming. Just would have liked 5 gears
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: brads70 on March 09, 2010 - 09:39:22 pm
hummmmm! I'm liking the sounds of this! :drool:  :2thumbs:
Can't wait to hear some real world reports!! Sounds good but I'm no guinea pig.
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: Grundy on March 10, 2010 - 08:51:45 am
Can't wait to hear about some real world pricing.
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: FJ5_440 on March 10, 2010 - 10:25:10 am
 :iagree:
a bolt in 5 speed at a reasonable price would be pretty cool.
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: TreeFrog on March 11, 2010 - 03:56:00 pm
nice idea, no doubt!
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: Challenger III on March 11, 2010 - 04:15:18 pm
wish we could find some gear ratio info...
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: Grundy on March 12, 2010 - 08:08:29 am
I've been searching, but I haven't found anything.
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: brads70 on March 12, 2010 - 12:27:15 pm
wish we could find some gear ratio info...

Ya that's important info.... I wonder how this tranny will compare to the Passon unit?
Passon was always #1 on my "radar".
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: Topcat on March 12, 2010 - 12:50:43 pm
I've been searching, but I haven't found anything.


Found their website.

http://www.mcleodracing.com/

I called there to find out pricing for the Mopar unit. Receptionist said I needed to speak with Pauly who won't be there till 3/17 to find out how much they go for.

Mcleod Racing

1600 Sierra Madre Circle

Placentia,Ca 92870

(714) 630-2764

(714) 630-3668 - Tech Dept
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: Challenger III on March 12, 2010 - 07:34:52 pm
Found their website.

[url]http://www.mcleodracing.com/[/url]

I called there to find out pricing for the Mopar unit. Receptionist said I needed to speak with Pauly who won't be there till 3/17 to find out how much they go for.

Mcleod Racing

1600 Sierra Madre Circle

Placentia,Ca 92870

(714) 630-2764

(714) 630-3668 - Tech Dept

Thanks for the leg work! :cheers:
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: ntstlgl1970 on March 12, 2010 - 07:48:54 pm
Pretty cool, I hope they can sell enough of them to make it worthwhile.
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: supercharged riot on March 12, 2010 - 09:15:06 pm
I dont see info on the transmission anymore what happened?
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: KMKuda on March 15, 2010 - 03:37:37 pm
Found their website.

[url]http://www.mcleodracing.com/[/url]

I called there to find out pricing for the Mopar unit. Receptionist said I needed to speak with Pauly who won't be there till 3/17 to find out how much they go for.

Mcleod Racing

1600 Sierra Madre Circle

Placentia,Ca 92870

(714) 630-2764

(714) 630-3668 - Tech Dept


Unfortunately the website has no info on the 5-speed.... :swear:
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: 73Chally on March 15, 2010 - 04:10:48 pm
I believe I saw on another site that the release has been pushed back to late this year.
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: 72hemi on November 05, 2010 - 05:13:39 pm
I talked to Mcleod while at SEMA this year since they had the 5 speed on display. They are working on a slight synchro issue at the moment and plan to have that fixed very soon and have the transmissions available early 2011. They are aluminum cased and all of the components are made in the US except for the gears which are made in Europe somewhere (can't remember where, but he said they come from the best gear cutters in the world). The gears are forged not cast and are not straight cut. The transmission was based on the Mopar 833 and will have an 18 spline input shaft. The length of the transmission will be the same as the 833 so no driveshaft length difference, but a new slip yoke will be required which Mcleod will provide with the transmission (it has a turbo 400 spline output shaft). First gear is 2.97 ratio and 5th is 0.63. The shifter location will be the stock Mopar locations so no floor modifications and will use stock Mopar bellhousings. This is a true bolt in swap for existing 4-speed cars. The transmission was very impressive looking in person and the guys at Mcleod were saying all the right things. Price is expected to be around $3000.
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: GoodysGotaCuda on November 05, 2010 - 05:51:22 pm
Interesting, unfortunately I have all this automatic crap to deal with first, but it is nice to see new options!
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: 72hemi on November 05, 2010 - 06:04:17 pm
Oh and it is rated at around 600 ft lbs dynamic torque. It has been tested to 100 ft lbs of static torque.
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: IMNCARN82 on November 05, 2010 - 06:49:58 pm
Ooooo... Ooooo...   :droolingbounce:     NICE!   About time someone did it right. Gonna' be runnin' one of these someday,You watch.
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: brads70 on November 05, 2010 - 06:52:05 pm
I talked to Mcleod while at SEMA this year since they had the 5 speed on display. They are working on a slight synchro issue at the moment and plan to have that fixed very soon and have the transmissions available early 2011. They are aluminum cased and all of the components are made in the US except for the gears which are made in Europe somewhere (can't remember where, but he said they come from the best gear cutters in the world). The gears are forged not cast and are not straight cut. The transmission was based on the Mopar 833 and will have an 18 spline input shaft. The length of the transmission will be the same as the 833 so no driveshaft length difference, but a new slip yoke will be required which Mcleod will provide with the transmission (it has a turbo 400 spline output shaft). First gear is 2.97 ratio and 5th is 0.63. The shifter location will be the stock Mopar locations so no floor modifications and will use stock Mopar bellhousings. This is a true bolt in swap for existing 4-speed cars. The transmission was very impressive looking in person and the guys at Mcleod were saying all the right things. Price is expected to be around $3000.

Did you happen to take any pictures? :picture:

Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: Topcat on November 05, 2010 - 10:13:47 pm
I want one. Now I just need 3 big clams.  :money:
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: Road_Runner on November 07, 2010 - 03:58:26 pm
This sounds EXACTLY like what I'm looking for in the Roadrunner.  Has anyone heard anything new on Passon Performance's 5 speed O/D?  It sounds like both are going to be very similar transmissions and with the sourcing of the parts at least partially in the US, I'm OK with the McLeod being an internationally sourced transmission especially if that includes gears made by a world class supplier.  $3K isn't cheap but neither is adding any of the other O/Ds on top of a rebuilt Hemi 4 speed.

Later, Jim
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: Road_Runner on November 07, 2010 - 04:08:21 pm
Just did the math, that's a 2.58 final ratio with the 4.10 I've got going into the Bird, that's perfect!  Loafing down the highway, tearing up the bi-ways!
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: 67vertman on November 07, 2010 - 07:13:40 pm
 :wavingflag:

I want one as well!  I hope they get them out next year.
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: tonefiend on November 07, 2010 - 08:41:12 pm
Since it's made in the USA I might have to start saving my nickels for this one!
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: Grundy on November 08, 2010 - 07:51:21 am
So much for  "affordable"...
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: 72hemi on November 08, 2010 - 08:39:21 am
So much for  "affordable"...

Considering that the Passon Performance 4 speed OD is $3k ($1900 for the gearset alone to convert your own transmission), 5 speed conversions start at $3500 (and those kits assume you have a 4 speed already), 4 speed OD kits from Keisler start at $4k and gear vendors units are around $2700 I would say the transmission is priced right. It's not $500, but its not a used worn out used transmission, and it's built here in the United States with quality components.


Did you happen to take any pictures? :picture:



Sorry I didn't get any pictures, there were too many people around it.
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: gkring on November 10, 2010 - 11:20:19 pm
http://www.bangshift.com/blog/Bangshift-Approved-The-McLeod-M-800-5-Speed-Transmission.html

From 2009 Sema. Nothing has changed since last year. Still having supplier issues, still looks to be a great product. I think there is a pretty good thread going on at Moparts about the Passon VS mcleod trannies.
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: ragtopdodge on December 10, 2010 - 04:36:26 pm
I wouldn't bother.

Passon 5-speed will fit. Maybe more $$$, but less hassles.
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: 72hemi on December 10, 2010 - 04:43:23 pm
Supposedly according to Mcleod their transmission will be a direct replacement as well with no floor modifications required and the same length as the 833. The only difference according to Mcleod is the output shaft is splined like a turbo 400, but they include a new slip yoke in the price which is suppose to be around $3300 for the Mopar version and the shifter is suppose to be in the stock location. So basically if everything Mcleod says is true, you basically have 2 transmissions that are a direct bolt in replacement for a 4 speed car, requiring 0 modifications, but one is $1000 less because they make Chevy and Ford variations. Now time will tell whether or not the information Mcleod gave me is accurate.
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: Tom Quad on December 15, 2010 - 07:06:47 am
Supposedly according to Mcleod their transmission will be a direct replacement as well with no floor modifications required and the same length as the 833. The only difference according to Mcleod is the output shaft is splined like a turbo 400, but they include a new slip yoke in the price which is suppose to be around $3300 for the Mopar version and the shifter is suppose to be in the stock location. So basically if everything Mcleod says is true, you basically have 2 transmissions that are a direct bolt in replacement for a 4 speed car, requiring 0 modifications, but one is $1000 less because they make Chevy and Ford variations. Now time will tell whether or not the information Mcleod gave me is accurate.

Are we all that stupid to believe Mcleod, well probably because how many others have succumbed to the song of the tremec siren [greek mythology]
Please let's stop being so ignorant about this trans.  It will not fit without major mods because....well golly gee...it's too tall...just like a tremec.
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: 72hemi on December 15, 2010 - 08:55:06 am
 :wow: Honestly?! While i haven't had the opportunity to take measurements of the Mcleod transmission I have no reason to doubt the information they give me at this point. Judging by the pictures yes it is probably an inch to an inch and a half taller than the new unit from Passons, but is that enough to cause a floor clearance problem, don't know. They claimed that they based their design of this new transmission from the 833 with the intent of being a bolt in replacement. I will hold my reservations of both units until they both go into production and people have experience with the installs. If Mcleod is able to produce a drop in replacement as Passon has claimed (again while everything looks good in the pictures I will hold off passing judgement until I see the proof) and it comes in at the price point they are claiming Passon's is going to be in trouble because the Passon drop in 5 speed will be $1000 more then the competition.

As for the Tremec conversion I have talked to people that have installed them without requiring modification to the floor (other than installing a factory 4 speed hump) and to people that have had to "masage" the tunnel to get it to fit, what causes the discrepancy is anyones guess.

At the end of the day for me it doesn't matter whether or not the Mcleod unit or the Passon unit is a direct bolt in or not, because I am planning on modifying my floor and torsion bar crossmember to install a Viper spec T-56 transmission, that way if something were to happen to the transmission I can just contact Dodge for replacement parts instead of praying that Mcleod or Passon don't ever go out of business, but that is just me, plus the added fact of having 2 overdrive gears is nice. But I am also not concerned about having the shifter in the stock location (although, being an engineer I could design a shifter and locate it in the stock location if I wanted to).
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: 73Chally on December 15, 2010 - 04:54:06 pm
Not sure where I saw it, but somewhere mentioned that this unit was more for street/strip applications, with a heavier emphasis on the strip?  They said it did not have synchros, which does not make sense, but I can't seem to find where I had read that.
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: 72hemi on December 15, 2010 - 09:10:11 pm
The guy from Mcleod said it is a street friendly transmission with synchros. He said a lot of rumors got started because a picture of the inside of another transmission with straight cut gears got posted a while back misrepresented as this new transmission.
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: 73Chally on December 15, 2010 - 09:53:00 pm
That's probably what I saw.  Thanks.
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: 74 340 4speed on December 26, 2010 - 10:59:14 pm
Just saw the Passon 5 speed.  direct bolt in, no issues, sounds like a winner.
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: go-fish on December 27, 2010 - 01:54:19 am
Keisler is coming out with a new tranny as well. I am inclined to trade in my TKO for one of these. It is basically a Baby T56.


Quote

The RS product line comes from the Borg Warner T-45, of which over a quarter million units were sold from 1996-2001 to Ford Mustang GT & Cobra. The T-45 was basically a rollup of the best features of T56 and T5 into one compact design, intended to be used for performance cars. It added one key piece of advanced technology which proved to be its achilles heel - the Double Disconnect Reverse.

The Double Disconnect Reverse (DDR)
The DDR removed the rotating inertia of the reverse triad gears, allowing for less noise, easier shift effort, and less drag. The DDR system employed a simese shift fork design which was to disengage/engage reverse gears simulataneously. The problem came about when they would not deflect and not operate in unison, resulting in gear grind going into reverse. This gear grind was the clutch gear teeth clashing with the synchro sleeve, and it would round the teeth off making it difficult to then get into gear. The shift lever would pop out of gear in reverse, requiring the driver to hold the lever handle in place while backing up. What a pain in the @$$. Warranty claims on the T-45 for the DDR allowed Tremec to sell its 3650 multi-rail trans to Ford, and the 2001-1/2 - 2010 models had the 3650 until it was dropped completely in favor of the Getrag unit found in current 2011 Mustang GT.

Our solution to fixing the DDR was to eliminate it and return to the single disconnect system (like T56, T5). Our chief design engineer and manual transmission guru, D. McCord - who was the principle design engineer of the T56 at Borg Warner back in the late 80s/early 90s - performed all of the design changes to make the Keisler T45R & T45RS robust. We have been selling them since 2007 with great results. We recently added additional testing capabilities to our Test Stand which allowed us to further improve the quality control of these units.

When Borg Warner designed the original gear designs of T5, T56 and T45, it was somewhat of a black art. Now, thanks to advanced analytics and modeling software, the gear designs are improved from the original. Furthermore, use of SAE9310 chrome-nickel-moly alloy steel provides a much stronger product than what was originally used (SAE8620). For example, we test the RS500 and RS600 input shaft to 5,000 LB-FT with no failure! In comparison, the RS400 input tests out around 2,000 before it twists. All testing is done using UL Certified & Calibrated lab equipment. (How many aftermarket transmission companies serving our market have that in their lab?)

We stand behind every RS product with a 3 year blanket warranty.

Hope this helps!

Shafi

At the beginning of the year Keisler is going to do a big press release. These are reportedly fitting in trans tunnels without surgery like the TKO line. For those of us that have a TKO from them already, we can just trade in the TKO box for the RS600. I am not sure of the ancillary parts changes yet.
There are at least two "test mule" transmissions out there getting beat on in hard street use and getting thrashed on a road course or two. No mishaps yet.
I am contemplating giving my Dad my complete TKO kit and getting a new RS600 kit. The TKO kit is great if you don't plan on banging gears from 2nd to 3rd. That's the only problem I've had, although it is a big problem for me. If you have a cruiser and not a hardcore street machine then you're alright with it. Dad will be. Obviously, Keisler has found enough "cruisers" there to make the capital to undertake this new RS endeavor. I am glad for that and it'll make a great Father's Day gift for my Dad.
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: IMNCARN82 on December 27, 2010 - 02:54:06 pm
 :popcorn:   Hmmmmmm...   Thanks for posting go-fish.
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: KEISLER on December 28, 2010 - 08:59:30 pm
Considering that the Passon Performance 4 speed OD is $3k ($1900 for the gearset alone to convert your own transmission), 5 speed conversions start at $3500 (and those kits assume you have a 4 speed already), 4 speed OD kits from Keisler start at $4k and gear vendors units are around $2700 I would say the transmission is priced right. It's not $500, but its not a used worn out used transmission, and it's built here in the United States with quality components.


Sorry I didn't get any pictures, there were too many people around it.


72hemi,

Our Keisler RS 5-Speed PerfectFit kits start at only $2295 - including a brand new driveshaft, crossmember, speedo cable, and lots of other parts.  Our RS 5-speed is based off the BorgWarner T45 built in Muncie Indiana.  All of our components including new case, shaft, gearing, etc is Made in USA. 

In Q2/2011, the new maincase will be in production, which will provide even lower profile to eliminate any chance of tunnel mods required with our Keisler Tremec TKO kits.

Here is a link (http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73870.msg752118#msg752118) to a thread on this forum on the new RS 5-Speed.

Also, our 4-speed automatic kits are $3795 - not $4K - and like ALL of our other kits, are loaded with many new components including driveshaft, crossmember, etc.  Plus NO CUTTING on the automatic kits either.

Shafi Keisler, Keisler Engineering
Title: Re: new McLeod 5-speed manual
Post by: KEISLER on December 28, 2010 - 09:14:43 pm
Oh and it is rated at around 600 ft lbs dynamic torque. It has been tested to 100 ft lbs of static torque.

72hemi,

I think you misquoted them on the static torque.  I guess it is 1000LBFT of static but that seems very low to me.  For example, we test our input shafts on the RS500 and RS600 to over 5,000 LB-FT static torque without failure.

When I questioned McLeod about this product last year, they were very fuzzy about the details - no specs on the metal, the centers distance of main shaft to cluster shaft, etc.  Later I learned their product is a T-5, which makes sense because the main case looks just like a T-5.   A T-5 is only 77mm centers distance, and factory rated at 230LB-FT torque.  Mustang guys run them up to around 300LB-FT or so, but the T-5 will not live at 600LB-FT.  The reason why is the centers distance limits how much torque capacity the transmission gears can load.  Torque calculations on gearing is a science that comes down to centers distance, gear tooth geometry, metallurgy, heat treatment, AGMA class, plus a lot of other factors like shaft bending which is a big problem in the T-5 under high load.  The main shaft and cluster shaft spread apart under load, causing the gear teeth to break.  I am not saying McLeod will have the problems, or that this M800 is based on the T5 with 100% certainty.  But if it is based on the China produced T5 that was rumored they got access to, it will likely be a let down because a T5 simply has not been proven to handle high torque loads - say 500LB-FT and above - with any amount of long term durability.  Who cares if a transmission can handle 600LBFT torque for 30 min total run time before it grenades...

Shafi Keisler