Cuda-Challenger.com

Chryco's Tech Shop => Suspension, Wheels/Tires, and Brakes => Topic started by: AU6pack on November 21, 2013 - 12:09:36 AM

Title: Manual brakes vs. Power brakes? Aghhh....
Post by: AU6pack on November 21, 2013 - 12:09:36 AM
Hi again,

I am wondering what the practical difference is between power boosted brakes and non boosted brakes are? I am running the bendix booster in my 70 Challenger and am having a hell of a time finding a place for the fluid reservoir for the hydrolic clutch.

The booster is out and only place it will fit fouls on the hood bracket   :stomp: Mounting it anywhere else will wither be impractical to fill or stand out too much.

While its out I'm thinking maybe ditch the power one and go for a manual unit where space wont be an issue.

Any plus or minus with each and any recommendations of what will work best with minimum mods? I would like a bolt in replacement if possible.

I'm doing plenty of upgrades and do want stopping power.

Thanks.

Title: Re: Manual brakes vs. Power brakes? Aghhh....
Post by: 72bluNblu on November 21, 2013 - 01:10:15 AM
Power brakes don't improve your stopping power, they just make it easier on your foot. Pedal effort is the only thing that is different, the actual brakes are the same, so is the stopping distance. Honestly, I prefer manual brakes. My challenger has power brakes, but my duster has manual brakes and the manual brakes have a much better pedal feel. Both cars have 11.75" disks. The duster had to stay manual because of the cam in its 340, but I'm glad I kept them. Heck I may even convert my challenger.
Title: Re: Manual brakes vs. Power brakes? Aghhh....
Post by: ChallengerHK on November 21, 2013 - 01:12:05 AM
My car came with manual and I've never looked back. My father drove a 72 Newport with power, and the brakes were very over-boosted, very touchy.
Title: Re: Manual brakes vs. Power brakes? Aghhh....
Post by: AU6pack on November 21, 2013 - 02:34:17 AM
Thanks guys. I think that's the way I'll go - manual.

Any tips on brands? Vendors?
Title: Re: Manual brakes vs. Power brakes? Aghhh....
Post by: Chryco Psycho on November 21, 2013 - 07:02:21 AM
Add me to the count , both my Charger & Chall have non power disc brakes , the other option is using hydro boost which is much smaller & uses pressure from the power steering to boost which is far better as many performance engine do not make enough vacuum to run the brakes effectively .
Title: Re: Manual brakes vs. Power brakes? Aghhh....
Post by: CUDA JAS on November 21, 2013 - 09:31:13 AM
Thanks guys. I think that's the way I'll go - manual.

Any tips on brands? Vendors?

I think doctor diff sells a nice kit using a newer MC.

I also have non-power brakes on my cuda.

Jason
Title: Re: Manual brakes vs. Power brakes? Aghhh....
Post by: ToxicWolf on November 21, 2013 - 10:36:54 AM
I like the hydro boost idea and may give a try one of these days.
Title: Re: Manual brakes vs. Power brakes? Aghhh....
Post by: ChallengerHK on November 21, 2013 - 12:42:49 PM
I've been contemplating that too. I've driven a hydroboost vehicle and it had a nice feel.
Title: Re: Manual brakes vs. Power brakes? Aghhh....
Post by: AU6pack on November 21, 2013 - 11:55:51 PM
I like the hydro boost idea and may give a try one of these days.

With a $1100.00 price tag and pretty ugly looks, i think i will just do the standard manual wilwood unit for now. The published weight is 30 lbs compared to 6 lbs for the plain jane Wilwood unit.

Thanks for the responses guys.
Title: Re: Manual brakes vs. Power brakes? Aghhh....
Post by: ToxicWolf on November 22, 2013 - 07:22:41 AM
With a $1100.00 price tag and pretty ugly looks, i think i will just do the standard manual wilwood unit for now. The published weight is 30 lbs compared to 6 lbs for the plain jane Wilwood unit.

Thanks for the responses guys.

 :roflsmiley: It is kind of ugly.
Title: Re: Manual brakes vs. Power brakes? Aghhh....
Post by: brads70 on November 22, 2013 - 07:26:09 AM
With a $1100.00 price tag and pretty ugly looks, i think i will just do the standard manual wilwood unit for now. The published weight is 30 lbs compared to 6 lbs for the plain jane Wilwood unit.

Thanks for the responses guys.

$1100 ? :faint:  I've got $50 bucks into mine so far, and just need to finish the mounting plate and buy/make the lines to connect it all up?
Title: Re: Manual brakes vs. Power brakes? Aghhh....
Post by: cordodge on November 22, 2013 - 07:42:16 AM
hey brad, i am assuming you got one from an astro van do you know what year vans to get them from?  thx bruce
Title: Re: Manual brakes vs. Power brakes? Aghhh....
Post by: brads70 on November 22, 2013 - 07:44:52 AM
hey brad, i am assuming you got one from an astro van do you know what year vans to get them from?  thx bruce


Yes it's from an Astro van, not sure what year though? In the 90's somewhere? Pretty common.
Here is the required line info courtesy of Barry

 (http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/B_Richmond/Hydroboostdrawing001.jpg) (http://s651.photobucket.com/user/B_Richmond/media/Hydroboostdrawing001.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Manual brakes vs. Power brakes? Aghhh....
Post by: brads70 on November 22, 2013 - 08:02:10 AM
If it helps...Here is some info for dimensions for making the mounting plate I found on the net. Others have said it's better to use the bell crank( under the dash) from the power booster set up other wise they are too sensitive? A member here (John) set me up with one. Also it's suggested to use a 1 1/8" master cylinder. (GM uses a
1 1/4" )I just haven't got off my butt to finish this up yet. That and I'm getting used to manual brakes.  :lol:

(http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/B_Richmond/hydroboostmeasurements.jpg) (http://s651.photobucket.com/user/B_Richmond/media/hydroboostmeasurements.jpg.html)


This mounting is not the best, makes the brakes too sensitive I'm told?
(http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/B_Richmond/68Roadrunnder-b.jpg) (http://s651.photobucket.com/user/B_Richmond/media/68Roadrunnder-b.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Manual brakes vs. Power brakes? Aghhh....
Post by: dodj on November 22, 2013 - 03:51:09 PM
Don't know if I could bring myself to put parts off a CHEVY ASTRO VAN  :eek4:  on my Challenger. Just sayin'
Title: Re: Manual brakes vs. Power brakes? Aghhh....
Post by: brads70 on November 22, 2013 - 03:55:50 PM
Don't know if I could bring myself to put parts off a CHEVY ASTRO VAN  :eek4:  on my Challenger. Just sayin'

 :lol:  if it makes you feel better all the big 3 use them? 
 :thinkerg: :wow: Hey it should work great being a Chevy part, you know trying to go slower and all! :roflsmiley: :aarg:
Title: Re: Manual brakes vs. Power brakes? Aghhh....
Post by: 73EStroker on November 23, 2013 - 11:08:36 AM
Don't know if I could bring myself to put parts off a CHEVY ASTRO VAN  :eek4:  on my Challenger. Just sayin'

You would change your mind if you drove mine at 100mph (my favourite speed I have to get to every time I drive her) it hauls the car down when applying brakes. This morning I pick up my Viper Calipers for the front so will be even better.
Title: Re: Manual brakes vs. Power brakes? Aghhh....
Post by: cordodge on November 23, 2013 - 12:41:01 PM
hey, thanks for the info brad.   bruce
Title: Re: Manual brakes vs. Power brakes? Aghhh....
Post by: brads70 on November 23, 2013 - 02:28:56 PM
hey, thanks for the info brad.   bruce

 :wave:
Title: Re: Manual brakes vs. Power brakes? Aghhh....
Post by: 72bluNblu on November 23, 2013 - 03:49:55 PM
You would change your mind if you drove mine at 100mph (my favourite speed I have to get to every time I drive her) it hauls the car down when applying brakes. This morning I pick up my Viper Calipers for the front so will be even better.

None of the boost methods change how much braking force is applied. They just change how much leg effort is needed to do so. Manual, power, or hydroboost, all will stop in the same distance as long as the rotors and calipers are the same. Although changing the bore of the master cylinder does have an effect on braking force, this again is a function of pedal effort and the amount of travel. As long as the the master cylinder is capable of fully engaging the brakes, the result will be the same. 
Title: Re: Manual brakes vs. Power brakes? Aghhh....
Post by: Jamiez on November 23, 2013 - 06:58:00 PM
I'm a big fan of power brakes.  I like the feel much better than manual....of course I also like power steering.

You didn't say what you have, but I strongly recommend going to disks at least in the front if your car doesn't have them already.  My charger has manual drums on all 4 corners and it's scary bringing that beast to a stop quickly.
Title: Re: Manual brakes vs. Power brakes? Aghhh....
Post by: brads70 on November 23, 2013 - 08:29:18 PM
One reason ( If I get off my butt) I am building a hydraboost is after driving the Challenger for a bit and I climb into the family Suburban ( also has hydraboost brakes) first time I hit the brakes I almost send everyone through the windshield ( exaggerating a bit)  Everything now has power brakes or hydraboost so  it would be nice to have some consistency. Not a "big" factor  but still....
The other is with the brake pads I have (EBC Yellow stuff) they don't work really well until they get hot and I thought maybe the hydraboost would help?   :dunno:
Title: Re: Manual brakes vs. Power brakes? Aghhh....
Post by: Jamiez on November 23, 2013 - 09:35:38 PM
Yeah I did the same thing first time I switched back to the modern Jeep after driving the charger.

I also have to put the seat further forward in the charger so I can get more "leg" into the pedal where with my other cars I can sit further back and use just my foot to work the pedal.
Title: Re: Manual brakes vs. Power brakes? Aghhh....
Post by: AU6pack on November 25, 2013 - 05:30:45 PM
Hey Brad - It seems you have a schematic drawing for every application - IMPRESSIVE  :2thumbs:
Title: Re: Manual brakes vs. Power brakes? Aghhh....
Post by: brads70 on November 25, 2013 - 05:36:28 PM
Hey Brad - It seems you have a schematic drawing for every application - IMPRESSIVE  :2thumbs:

Just stuff I've saved over the years, some from other members too, not all my ideas! :2thumbs: