Cuda-Challenger.com

CC Central => Newb Intros => Topic started by: Dodge Bros. II on March 10, 2013 - 01:02:54 PM

Title: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: Dodge Bros. II on March 10, 2013 - 01:02:54 PM
In the summer of 2011 you saw this ad right here on Cuda-Challenger.com:

http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=79309.0 (http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=79309.0)

And at the end of that thread Lynn Andrew Shackelford was negotiating on the telephone with three people for a sale price just north of $100K when he was told that "You're a scammer and you don't really own that car!"  Well, I've been with Lynn for 24 years now and yes, he owns that car. He's owned it ever since I met him.

I ran Lynn down to Derry, NH where the car had been parked for the summer at a friends house and took this photo, sort of a Proof of Life photo because I had a very bad feeling.

(http://www.arts-attic.com/automobiles/70challenger/images/3640.jpg)

Sure enough, the friend Paul Doolittle of Derry, NH removed the car from his farm to "an undisclosed location" shortly after this photo was taken. Sure enough the summer went downhill from there.  If Lynn's car since 1978, registered in California, Massachusetts and finally New Hampshire, is the same one you saw on eBay, then Paul had been trying to sell that car from the moment he found out what it was worth and lied to me to get it onto his property.  Paul Doolittle was not authorized to sell that car. Period.  He did not have legal standing to do so.

Lynn specifically would not sell his car to Mike Mancini.  Lynn was trying to find someone who would cherish this car the way he does.

Lynn was coerced into signing a Bill of Sale by Paul and Matt Doolittle.  The threat they used was the destruction of Lynn's Challenger.  Signatures obtained under duress are not valid. 

I am looking for the people that Lynn was negotiating price with during the summer of 2011.

Art Joly
Art@arts-attic.com
(603) 785-0994
Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: spamtank on March 10, 2013 - 01:09:45 PM

Hey Art, hope you get that straightened out.

73

Rick in Manchester...
Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: Finoke on March 10, 2013 - 04:34:39 PM
I thought something like this would happen. I emailed Lynn in that time period to inquire about the car. I was contacted by someone to buy the car that was not Lynn.

The story that was given to me sounded shady, so I pulled back my offer. To big an investment for the risk.  Feel free to private message me here for details.

Tom
Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: 1BADFISH™ on March 10, 2013 - 04:45:48 PM
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: Super Blue 72 on March 10, 2013 - 08:13:18 PM
More  :popcorn:  Very interesting.  Hope it all gets worked out. 

My Challenger was from NH, but it isn't like that one! 

Rick, my car was from Manchester...
Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: spamtank on March 10, 2013 - 08:23:41 PM
Cool.  How long have you had it?  I know you've been on the forum for a while.

I know Art and Lynn.  Haven't seen them in a while, but they are fellow ham radio operators.  Hate to see good people get taken advantage of.
Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: torredcuda on March 11, 2013 - 09:11:24 AM
I`m assuming you already have a lawyer and the authorties invovled?
Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: Super Blue 72 on March 11, 2013 - 09:18:02 AM
Cool.  How long have you had it?  I know you've been on the forum for a while.

I know Art and Lynn.  Haven't seen them in a while, but they are fellow ham radio operators.  Hate to see good people get taken advantage of.

I'll PM you.  I have a bad habit of going off topic!  :icon16:



I would imagine something is being done about this car like torredcuda mentioned, yes?
Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: torredcuda on March 11, 2013 - 06:41:57 PM
Interesting story-
http://arts-attic.com/blog/ (http://arts-attic.com/blog/)
Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: 1BADFISH™ on March 11, 2013 - 07:52:15 PM
Wow, this is such a crazy story.....
Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: Cuda Cody on March 11, 2013 - 08:35:59 PM
We know there is two side to every story, but I'm not sure I'm following what your side is?  It appears he sold the car for $40K and wanted the car to go to a good home, but when he found out what / where the car ended up felt he was lied to?  yes / no?  You mention "duress", but did I missed the part where you described what duress was used?  If you stated it and if didn't catch it I'm sorry, but just saying it does not make it true. 

If this was a clarification thread, I think I'm more confused then before.   :clueless:

Was the car stolen?  If so how long did it take for him to notice it was stolen and report it to the police?  What was the "duress" used to get him to sign a bill of sale and the title?  Was it a threat of violence and is there proof that will hold up in court?  If this is just he said / she said then I'm sorry for him and that's most likely the end of story.  But if he has documentation of duress then he should exhaust avenues including a court of law.
Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: ragtopdodge on March 11, 2013 - 09:16:20 PM
We know there is two side to every story, but I'm not sure I'm following what your side is?  It appears he sold the car for $40K and wanted the car to go to a good home, but when he found out what / where the car ended up felt he was lied to?  yes / no?  You mention "duress", but did I missed the part where you described what duress was used?  If you stated it and if didn't catch it I'm sorry, but just saying it does not make it true. 

If this was a clarification thread, I think I'm more confused then before.   :clueless:

Was the car stolen?  If so how long did it take for him to notice it was stolen and report it to the police?  What was the "duress" used to get him to sign a bill of sale and the title?  Was it a threat of violence and is there proof that will hold up in court?  If this is just he said / she said then I'm sorry for him and that's most likely the end of story.  But if he has documentation of duress then he should exhaust avenues including a court of law.

"Lynn was coerced into signing a Bill of Sale by Paul and Matt Doolittle.  The threat they used was the destruction of Lynn's Challenger.  Signatures obtained under duress are not valid.  "


Sounds like it was parked at the Doolittle premises and then when trying to retrieve it, threatened to have it destroyed upon receipt if Lynn didn't sell it to these guys.

Man oh man, so...he apparently needed to have the whole thing tape-recorded or video taped b/c that's extortion in my book.
Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: Super Blue 72 on March 11, 2013 - 09:56:34 PM
We know there is two side to every story, but I'm not sure I'm following what your side is?  It appears he sold the car for $40K and wanted the car to go to a good home...

Is that really what Lynn got?  $40k?  I'm kind of confused reading all this, but it sounds like Micheal Mancini bought the car from Paul Doolittle for $40k, yes?

So when Lynn syigned the papers over to Paul, I wonder for how much?  Sorry if I missed it...

"...so buying Lynn’s exceedingly rare, incredibly valuable collectible car from Paul for only $40,000 must have seemed like a bargain at to Michael Mancini."   :dunno:
Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: Finoke on March 12, 2013 - 02:22:28 AM
I won't get into a lot of detail here, but the person that called me to sell the car was not Lynn and did not have possesion of the title. They were selling to the highest offer which at the time was 40k. The rest of this persons story basically sounded like they were selling LYnns car to get money back that was owed to them. I did not persue the car after that, even though I would have loved to have it.

I have nothing against the person who ended up buying the car because I am not privy to the content of the conversation they had and to whom they had it with. But the conversation that I had definitely sounded like the car was being sold without cooperation from the owner.
Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: torredcuda on March 12, 2013 - 09:10:04 AM
From what I read Lynn owed Paul $16k or more and Paul then took possesion and "coerced" Lynn to sign a bill of sale and sold the car without permission from Lynn to Mancini for $40k.
Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: 1BADFISH™ on March 12, 2013 - 09:22:12 AM
From what I read Lynn owed Paul $16k or more and Paul then took possesion and "coerced" Lynn to sign a bill of sale and sold the car without permission from Lynn to Mancini for $40k.

That's what I got out of it. Seems like the "storage" costs became astronomical once he realized what he was storing, whole story sounds very peculiar.   :popcorn:
Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: Dodge Bros. II on March 12, 2013 - 05:40:26 PM
1BADFISH said:


That's what I got out of it. Seems like the "storage" costs became astronomical once he realized what he was storing, whole story sounds very peculiar.

Art says:
The part that really got me that summer was this:  Lynn sold his 1960 Pontiac Bonneville http://www.arts-attic.com/automobiles/60pontiac/60pontiac.htm (http://www.arts-attic.com/automobiles/60pontiac/60pontiac.htm) for $5K and handed the money to Paul D. and Paul conveniently forgets about that money.  The debt at that point was now $11K with good faith shown.  In cash.

Yeah the invoice for the "help" came out after Paul forced Lynn to sign a Bill of Sale.  That was a surprise.

This is a "This can happen to you too" story.  I don't expect anything to come from my telling this tale but if possible I would like to talk to the other two people Lynn was talking to about his car.
Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: Cuda Cody on March 12, 2013 - 05:59:50 PM
There's a lot I do not fully understand having only heard one side, however the part that perplexes me is the "forced" signature on a bill of sale.  This is highly illegal and easy to prosecute.  Simply provide the evidence to the proper authority and this will be easily rectified.  What was the "force" used to make him sign the Title and a Bill of Sale?


1BADFISH said:

Yeah the invoice for the "help" came out after Paul forced Lynn to sign a Bill of Sale.  That was a surprise.

Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: RzeroB on March 12, 2013 - 07:00:44 PM
When this thread was started I was like the third guy to put up a post thinking that these guys were somehow scammed out of their car. I based that assumption on the info that was provided in the initial post. The initial post creates the impression that a scam actually happened. However, after following the thread and the associated hyperlinks my initial impressions have changed. The car wasn't "stolen" as they try and make it seem. They may have been "manipulated" into selling and can whine and cry foul all they want, but the car wasn't "stolen", it was sold. They were in a financial bind, the buyer applied pressure, and they caved and sold the car. All the other rambling is just smoke and mirrors trying to create a different impression and generate sympathy. I mean if they were so concerned about the car why didn't they just move it at the first hint  of trouble? Instead of taking a picture of the car with a newspaper, you're the owner, get in, start it up and drive it somewhere else (and if it wouldn't start tow it!)! It's a done deal and they just need to quit whinning and "man up" (if they can do that I don't know...). If the whinning persists, maybe admin should just do like Robert (Ramenth) over at FEBO did and lock the thread down. From now on I'll make sure I know more about the subject before I jump in and comment on something before I know more of the story.
Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: torredcuda on March 12, 2013 - 08:38:24 PM
There's a lot I do not fully understand having only heard one side, however the part that perplexes me is the "forced" signature on a bill of sale.  This is highly illegal and easy to prosecute.  Simply provide the evidence to the proper authority and this will be easily rectified.  What was the "force" used to make him sign the Title and a Bill of Sale?

I`m guessing the problem is there is no hard evidence.

When this thread was started I was like the third guy to put up a post thinking that these guys were somehow scammed out of their car. I based that assumption on the info that was provided in the initial post. The initial post creates the impression that a scam actually happened. However, after following the thread and the associated hyperlinks my initial impressions have changed. The car wasn't "stolen" as they try and make it seem. They may have been "manipulated" into selling and can whine and cry foul all they want, but the car wasn't "stolen", it was sold. They were in a financial bind, the buyer applied pressure, and they caved and sold the car. All the other rambling is just smoke and mirrors trying to create a different impression and generate sympathy. I mean if they were so concerned about the car why didn't they just move it at the first hint  of trouble? Instead of taking a picture of the car with a newspaper, you're the owner, get in, start it up and drive it somewhere else (and if it wouldn't start tow it!)! It's a done deal and they just need to quit whinning and "man up" (if they can do that I don't know...). If the whinning persists, maybe admin should just do like Robert (Ramenth) over at FEBO did and lock the thread down. From now on I'll make sure I know more about the subject before I jump in and comment on something before I know more of the story.


If he signed a bill of sale that is all you need in NH to legally the car as you don`t need a title on a vehicle over 15 yrs old.
Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: back n black on March 13, 2013 - 11:12:09 AM
Awesome car....
Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: Dodge Bros. II on March 14, 2013 - 02:01:28 PM
ECS said:

If you recall this was the vehicle that Mike Mancini contacted me to have a Broadcast sheet made for.  He told me they only wanted to use for display purposes with the car because the original owner couldn't find the "real" one at that particular time.  Well low & behold, the original one was miraculously found AFTER Mike had received the one I made.   What's odd about that scenario was the copy that I made ended up being displayed on eBay as the "original" one that came with the car.  The Engine block also had suspicious font stampings for the time period in which it was built.  Here is a link to that thread for those who missed it.

http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=86271.msg861351#msg861351 (http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=86271.msg861351#msg861351)

Dodge Bros. II clarifies:
I'm talking about Lynn Shackelfords's car 6PK2GO V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 an all original first day of production special handling car built for display at Dodge dealers across the country along with six others just like it.  In a remarkable coincidence to the car you describe in your build-sheet thread,  6PK2GO does not have a numbers matching engine.  The original engine suffered a terminal rod through the side of the block failure and was replaced with an engine from a 1970 Dodge Monaco Lynn re-built at Hemi's and used Bryant Racing Engines for the machine work.   Both companies in Orange, California.  The engine was built up with 6-pack rods, purple camshaft and Rhodes lifters.  Hardened valve seats were installed in the heads with a triple angle cut along with mild porting and polishing.  I can tell you from experience that the engine revved smoothly to 8K with no sign of wanting to slow down.

http://www.arts-attic.com/automobiles/70challenger/images/build_sheet.jpg (http://www.arts-attic.com/automobiles/70challenger/images/build_sheet.jpg)

Art Joly
Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: 1BADFISH™ on March 14, 2013 - 02:33:42 PM
How come the more I read the more confused I get.   :clueless: 

So this Mike Mancini owned another Promo car in addition to Lynn's car he currently has and is not yet restored? Mike has been involved with 2 of these promo V code convertibles?Both with questionable history?

Who is 6PK2GO and why did Lynn rebuild his engine?

Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: anlauto on March 14, 2013 - 02:36:00 PM
 :iagree:  :clueless:
Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: ChallengerHK on March 14, 2013 - 02:39:20 PM
How come the more I read the more confused I get.   :clueless: 

So this Mike Mancini owned another Promo car in addition to Lynn's car he currently has and is not yet restored? Mike has been involved with 2 of these promo V code convertibles?Both with questionable history?

Who is 6PK2GO and why did Lynn rebuild his engine?

I get the impression that people are going out of their way to not say certain things, probably for legal reasons, but it is indeed making it damned hard to try to piece this story together.
Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: tman on March 14, 2013 - 03:22:42 PM
 :iagree:  What is the bottom line on this?  Only those that know can give us the answer.............Everyone else is just guessing.
Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: Finoke on March 14, 2013 - 03:58:55 PM
:iagree:  What is the bottom line on this?  Only those that know can give us the answer.............Everyone else is just guessing.

I think the bottom line is what was stated in the opening of this thread...

"I am looking for the people that Lynn was negotiating price with during the summer of 2011"

I answered this thread because I was one of the people that was persuing the car. I dropped out because I felt someone was going to get burned after finding out the details of how the sale was being handled.
Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: Finoke on March 14, 2013 - 04:01:30 PM
I get the impression that people are going out of their way to not say certain things, probably for legal reasons, but it is indeed making it damned hard to try to piece this story together.

I think your probably correct on this assumption. My only involvment in this was one phone call that occured at the time of the sale. I found it irregullar and jotted down some notes after the phone call. I'm glad I did because its hard to remember something that happened almost 2 years ago.

I don't know who is right or wrong here. But I keep good notes on cars that I like to collect. Just like a lot of you guys.
Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: tman on March 14, 2013 - 04:43:58 PM
Thanks Finoke.  This thread became very nebulous. 
Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: Oldschool on March 14, 2013 - 04:53:35 PM
Puzzling and interesting...   Hmmmm..... :clueless:
Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: Dodge Bros. II on March 14, 2013 - 05:50:59 PM
:iagree:  :clueless:


Go back and read what I wrote, don't just skim.  Then you'll know what happened to the original engine. 

6PK2GO is the NH vanity plate Lynn Shackelford had on his car when it was stolen.

http://www.arts-attic.com/automobiles/70challenger/70challenger.htm (http://www.arts-attic.com/automobiles/70challenger/70challenger.htm)
Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: Dodge Bros. II on March 14, 2013 - 06:04:52 PM
How come the more I read the more confused I get.   :clueless: 

So this Mike Mancini owned another Promo car in addition to Lynn's car he currently has and is not yet restored? Mike has been involved with 2 of these promo V code convertibles?Both with questionable history?

Who is 6PK2GO and why did Lynn rebuild his engine?




Go back and read what I wrote about the engine, don't just skim.  Then you'll know what happened to the original engine.

6PK2GO is the NH vanity plate Lynn Shackelford had on his car when it was stolen.  We're used to referring to the car as that or California Native, the bumper sticker Lynn had on the car when it was stolen.

http://www.arts-attic.com/automobiles/70challenger/70challenger.htm (http://www.arts-attic.com/automobiles/70challenger/70challenger.htm)
Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: 1BADFISH™ on March 14, 2013 - 06:22:07 PM


Dodge Bros. II clarifies:
I'm talking about Lynn Shackelfords's car 6PK2GO V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 an all original first day of production special handling car built for display at Dodge dealers across the country along with six others just like it.  In a remarkable coincidence to the car you describe in your build-sheet thread,  6PK2GO does not have a numbers matching engine.  The original engine suffered a terminal rod through the side of the block failure and was replaced with an engine from a 1970 Dodge Monaco Lynn re-built at Hemi's and used Bryant Racing Engines for the machine work.   Both companies in Orange, California.  The engine was built up with 6-pack rods, purple camshaft and Rhodes lifters.  Hardened valve seats were installed in the heads with a triple angle cut along with mild porting and polishing.  I can tell you from experience that the engine revved smoothly to 8K with no sign of wanting to slow down.

[url]http://www.arts-attic.com/automobiles/70challenger/images/build_sheet.jpg[/url] ([url]http://www.arts-attic.com/automobiles/70challenger/images/build_sheet.jpg[/url])

Art Joly


This sentence doesn't sound like you are referring to a NH Vanisty plate? I know that was the licence plate. [Just read you're second response, I understand this part now] Who is Dodge Bros that posted the original add to sell this car? And why are you typing on Art's behalf? Is he a member here and shouldn't he be chiming in. 

I'm also confused why you keep stating the Vin# as JS27VCB100421  Why do you keep putting a V where a 0 should be?

ECS: That broadcast sheet you referenced that is similar to this car, does that have anything to do with Art or this car? Or is Mike the common link between your post and this thread, I read it as though you were talking about a broadcast sheet you made for this car.

I am going to go back and read through everything again and maybe get some clarity.  :1zhelp:
Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: tipster on March 14, 2013 - 09:33:36 PM
holy moly what a wild story

i googled some of the  info from the car and came up with this page on e-bodies website about this very weird situation

there is alot of stuff here

http://www.forebodiesonly.com/forum/showthread.php?6065-1970-440-6-Challenger-RT-Convertible-V-I-N-JS27V0B100421 (http://www.forebodiesonly.com/forum/showthread.php?6065-1970-440-6-Challenger-RT-Convertible-V-I-N-JS27V0B100421)

Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: anlauto on March 14, 2013 - 10:11:07 PM
bring it on big shot! 

Is that a publicly made threat ?  :roflsmiley:
Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: Challenger6pak on March 14, 2013 - 10:40:21 PM
You won't get to the bottom of this.  I tried on FEBO.  When you look at the purpose of the thread you can see that no good is going to come out of this thread.  It is a job for the authorities, if there even is a legal issue.  I make the same suggestion here that I did on FEBO.   Lock the thread and move on.  If a legal issue does come up, CC.Com does not need to be involved.
Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: moparman82 on March 14, 2013 - 10:48:28 PM
 :iagree:
Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: RzeroB on March 14, 2013 - 11:09:23 PM
I probably shouldn't even dignify this thread by responding to it (again) but the whining within it is getting ridiculous. The car wasn't "stolen", it was sold and it's been a done deal for quite a while now. Whether they got a fair price for it or not is irrelevant - it was sold and now it's gone. It's like  :horse: Trying to "spin" it any other way is just a bunch of BS. I agree with Challenger6pak, if the whining persists, maybe admin should just do like Robert (Ramenth) over at FEBO did and just lock this thread down.
Title: Re: V.I.N. JS27VCB100421 The Rest of the Story
Post by: 4Cruizn on March 15, 2013 - 12:19:36 AM
All done here . . .