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Chryco's Tech Shop => Proven Engine Combos => Big Blocks => Topic started by: Mc MOPAR on November 14, 2016 - 09:50:09 am

Title: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: Mc MOPAR on November 14, 2016 - 09:50:09 am
Hi guys,

Instead of rebuilding the tired 383 in my 70 Challenger RT, I bought a recently rebuilt 440.  It's bored .030" over, has a Mopar 557 cam, 906 Heads, Mopar M1 aluminum single plane intake manifold, Holley DP carb, long tube headers, is claimed to have 500hp/525tq.  Previous owner claimed it ran 12.8 in the 1/4 mile in his 69 Coronet.  He has decided to keep the intake and carb, so I would like to know what will work best on this engine.  It will be used 90% of the time as a cruiser to car shows and local cruise nights and then 10% of the time at the drag track posing as a 383 car.  Based on my research so far, I'm leaning toward a Mopar dual plane aluminum intake or the Edelbrock Performer RPM for less hp and more tq.  For the carb I'm wondering if I should just run the Edelbrock AVS 650cfm (1806) that was on my 383, or get a Edelbrock Performer 750cfm carb for it?  I'm just not sure if the 650 is too small for the 440 seeing as its not stock.  One other thing I will have to figure out is which stall speed torque converter to run with this engine...
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: HP2 on November 14, 2016 - 10:06:11 am
IMO, 650 is fine for cruising, but will choking it for any drag runs. I think a 750 may even be too small for all out banzai runs too, but would be suitable for a dual purpose set up.

One of the highest torque and HP producing manifolds out there are tunnel rams. Combined with properly matched carbs, they can make a great street set up. However, if you want to keep it all under the hood, then the RPM may be a better choice.
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: dfrazz on November 14, 2016 - 10:48:29 am
Tried and true =  Edelbrock Performer RPM and a Proform 750
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: Mc MOPAR on November 14, 2016 - 12:13:04 pm
I've only heard good things about the Edelbrock Performer RPM intake on a 440, but will it fit under my stock RT hood?
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: wantone on November 14, 2016 - 12:58:26 pm
Thought about EFI?   FiTech?
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: dfrazz on November 14, 2016 - 01:30:34 pm
I've only heard good things about the Edelbrock Performer RPM intake on a 440, but will it fit under my stock RT hood?

yep
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: 1970 RT Challenger 1970 on November 14, 2016 - 05:33:10 pm
I like the Mopar M1 Manifold and Holley DP on my 440. Goes like a Bat outta Hell! Why change a good thing.
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: brads70 on November 14, 2016 - 05:43:32 pm
I'm using ( after the good advice from others on here) a Holley street dominator intake and a quickfuel carb on my 451".
This one....   https://www.quickfueltechnology.com/carburetors/drag-race/q-series/q-series-carburetor-850cfm-drag-race.html (https://www.quickfueltechnology.com/carburetors/drag-race/q-series/q-series-carburetor-850cfm-drag-race.html)

Very happy with both!  :2thumbs:
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: Mc MOPAR on November 15, 2016 - 08:54:29 am
I'm thinking I need to change the camshaft with one that makes power between 1500-5500rpm since I will be doing more street driving then drag racing.  Low end torque is what I'm looking for.  But I still want a cam with a rough idle.
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: Mc MOPAR on November 16, 2016 - 08:16:42 am
I talked to my engine builder last night and we have a plan.  We are going to replace the Mopar 557 cam (3000-6700rpm), with a Hughes Whiplash cam (1500-6500rpm).  Install an Eddy Performance RPM intake, and use my Eddy AVS 650 carb.  We will also install a 3000 stall converter in the 727 trans.  Does anyone here have experience with the Whiplash cam?  I have only read good reviews so far, and it seems like itís exactly what Iím looking for.  From the videos Iíve watched, it actually sounds meaner then the Mopar 557 cam at idle but then starts making power 1500rpm sooner than the 557.  You could almost say the best of both worlds.
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: challenger4404spd on November 17, 2016 - 02:28:35 pm
whats your compression on your engine?  the whiplash may knock if its too high.  why not just advance the .557 cam you have now and call it a day.  go with a nice dual plane intake like the performer rpm or a street dominator single plane.  you never mentioned what gears and converter you have.

Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: Road_Runner on November 19, 2016 - 11:28:21 pm
whats your compression on your engine?  the whiplash may knock if its too high.  why not just advance the .557 cam you have now and call it a day.  go with a nice dual plane intake like the performer rpm or a street dominator single plane.  you never mentioned what gears and converter you have.

Agree, I was looking at the Whiplash cam for the Roadrunner until I read Hugh's own description that its meant to wake up low compression smog motors with low compression. If you're motor has decent compression (9.5+) I would probably look elsewhere for a cam.  I love the sound  the whiplash cam makes, and if that's what you're after look at the Bootlegger cam from Lunati or Thumpr cams from Comp.  Also, if you can find a old school Edelbrock CH4B dual-plane that would be a good period correct intake for your 440.

Later, Jim
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: twalker on November 20, 2016 - 11:59:28 am
Like brad, through advice on here I went with the Holley street dominator.  I can't compare the performance to the eddy RPM but so far I like street dominator and it (just) fits under my hood.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: Mc MOPAR on November 21, 2016 - 10:13:20 am
The guy that sold it to me said it was 10:1, but I doubt its that high after being rebuilt 5 years ago and having lots of miles put in it since then.  What would advancing the timing on the 557 do?  Would it change the power band?
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: usraptr on November 21, 2016 - 12:12:59 pm
I running the Holley street dominator with a Quick Fuel Carb.  Highly recommend both.  :2thumbs:
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: dave73chally on November 25, 2016 - 08:25:07 am
I have a holley street dominator intake and holley 850 carb. I have a standard base 14" round air cleaner with a 2" element, the 3" element hit my RT hood. I couldn't find a drop base that would clear my carb, not sure if it was because I was buying generic stuff or what but an FYI
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: Mc MOPAR on November 28, 2016 - 07:48:49 am
I think I'm going to leave the engine the way it is for now with the mopar 557 cam and mopar m1 intake.  Try it out and see how it works before changing things on it.  Previous owner said it worked amazing, and that I would be crazy to change anything on it.  I will have to get a larger carb for it though, I thinking a Eddy AVS 800...
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: rUNCHARGER on November 28, 2016 - 11:18:05 am
Good plan. If the engine works well now, just change whats around it to make it all work. It sounds like a good combo all right.

Sheldon
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: 73restomod on December 14, 2016 - 10:33:13 pm
I would look for a good annular discharge booster carb, it will help mid range torque and drive ability on a single plane greatly,  in a 830 to 850 cfm range.
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: Chryco Psycho on December 14, 2016 - 10:58:36 pm
I would be using a Proform 850
Eddy AVS  :banghead:
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: wantone on December 17, 2016 - 10:11:06 pm
My Eddie 750 on a 383 was like riding a neutered and overweight ex race horse.   :horse:
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: Road_Runner on December 24, 2016 - 11:53:35 am
I would be using a Proform 850
Eddy AVS  :banghead:

Before I rebuilt my 383 back in the 70's the motor was a warmed over with hooker Super Comps, and a DP4B dual plane intake.  It ran fantastic with the stock  AVS carb until the very top end when it just couldn't flow enough air for higher RPMs.  If the larger AVS addressed that lack of flow I would think it would also run well.  Obviously, you've seen differently so how exactly is the Proform or other  holley based carbs so much better?  I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm looking for some education here as like others I've considered going to a larger Edelbrock  for that 'stock'  look. 

Thanks, Jim

Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: Mc MOPAR on January 10, 2017 - 09:30:22 am
Happy New Year Everyone!  After talking to my stall speed torque convertor guy, I decided to go ahead with a cam/intake swap.  With an automatic trans, my 440 engines current set up just wasnít going to work without using a 3500 stall and changing my rear gears to 4.10 so the converter would lock up on the highway.  And that would leave me screaming at 3050rpm at 60mph, which isnít ideal so I think itís a much better plan to just do a cam/intake swap and turn this high rpm screamer into a low end torque monster.  So Iím going with Hughes Whiplash cam and an Eddy Performer RPM intake.  When my engine is done, it will be identical to this one minus the 0.040 bore, aluminum Eddy heads, a performer RPM intake instead of the performer and an Eddy 800 AVS carb instead of the Holley DP.

http://www.hughesengines.com/TechArticles/3dunnuckracing440withwhiplashhmc3245bl7cam.php (http://www.hughesengines.com/TechArticles/3dunnuckracing440withwhiplashhmc3245bl7cam.php)

This set up should work well with a 2800 stall and my 3.23 gears, we will seeÖ
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: 734406pk on January 11, 2017 - 12:37:56 am
Happy New Year Everyone!  After talking to my stall speed torque convertor guy, I decided to go ahead with a cam/intake swap.  With an automatic trans, my 440 engines current set up just wasnít going to work without using a 3500 stall and changing my rear gears to 4.10 so the converter would lock up on the highway.  And that would leave me screaming at 3050rpm at 60mph, which isnít ideal so I think itís a much better plan to just do a cam/intake swap and turn this high rpm screamer into a low end torque monster.  So Iím going with Hughes Whiplash cam and an Eddy Performer RPM intake.  When my engine is done, it will be identical to this one minus the 0.040 bore, aluminum Eddy heads, a performer RPM intake instead of the performer and an Eddy 800 AVS carb instead of the Holley DP.

[url]http://www.hughesengines.com/TechArticles/3dunnuckracing440withwhiplashhmc3245bl7cam.php[/url] ([url]http://www.hughesengines.com/TechArticles/3dunnuckracing440withwhiplashhmc3245bl7cam.php[/url])

This set up should work well with a 2800 stall and my 3.23 gears, we will seeÖ


Good luck with your build, that 107 deg LSA will definitely sound nasty! Post your results!
 
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: CUDA8U on May 13, 2017 - 02:28:20 pm
Happy New Year Everyone!  After talking to my stall speed torque convertor guy, I decided to go ahead with a cam/intake swap.  With an automatic trans, my 440 engines current set up just wasnít going to work without using a 3500 stall and changing my rear gears to 4.10 so the converter would lock up on the highway.  And that would leave me screaming at 3050rpm at 60mph, which isnít ideal so I think itís a much better plan to just do a cam/intake swap and turn this high rpm screamer into a low end torque monster.  So Iím going with Hughes Whiplash cam and an Eddy Performer RPM intake.  When my engine is done, it will be identical to this one minus the 0.040 bore, aluminum Eddy heads, a performer RPM intake instead of the performer and an Eddy 800 AVS carb instead of the Holley DP.

[url]http://www.hughesengines.com/TechArticles/3dunnuckracing440withwhiplashhmc3245bl7cam.php[/url] ([url]http://www.hughesengines.com/TechArticles/3dunnuckracing440withwhiplashhmc3245bl7cam.php[/url])

This set up should work well with a 2800 stall and my 3.23 gears, we will seeÖ



Just curious how this combo worked out with parts that weren't recommended ? I have read and had bad experieces with eddy carbs and the whiplash cam was shot down right away from other members.
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: Mc MOPAR on May 16, 2017 - 10:37:01 pm
Update: Whiplash cam is now installed.  Next I will give the 440 a fresh coat of hemi orange mopar engine heat paint.  Then its time to install it in my 70 Challenger RT and break in the cam which will probably happen around the end of June or so.  I will post my results once its in and running.

This is pretty much exactly what my 440 will be like, except not bored, ported and polished iron heads, Eddy RPM intake and the 800 Eddy carb.
http://www.hughesengines.com/TechArticles/3dunnuckracing440withwhiplashhmc3245bl7cam.php (http://www.hughesengines.com/TechArticles/3dunnuckracing440withwhiplashhmc3245bl7cam.php)

So mine should make a little more hp and a little less torque...
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: 734406pk on May 17, 2017 - 10:55:59 pm
Best of luck! Post the results1 :2thumbs:
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: AussieMark on August 16, 2017 - 08:27:28 am
How did it go?
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: cam440 on August 16, 2017 - 04:17:49 pm
Yes I'm pretty keen to hear as well mates looking at a Hughes cam whiplash they sound wicked
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: Aracer on August 17, 2017 - 09:04:47 pm
The drop air cleaner will sit 1/2" higher on a 750 #1411 Eddy carb. with an electric choke.  Using the mandatory 1/2" spacer for the choke clearance.
       The 750 cfm Proform Vac. body Kit on a 3310 Holley will fit with the 2 5/8" x 14" in Moroso drop air c.
        The Holley heat shield will fit too. On a 1974 flat hood cuda. Using a RPM on a 440. About 3/8" of clay on top of the nut, for clearance.
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: Mc MOPAR on September 05, 2017 - 02:17:09 pm
Hey guys,  I will have results soon!  I didn't want to install the 440 until my 383 was sold, and it just sold last week.  So I should have a big update in 2-3 weeks on how this combo worked out...
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: 73restomod on September 07, 2017 - 06:53:48 pm
sweet looking forward to the report :2thumbs:
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: Mc MOPAR on November 06, 2017 - 02:31:33 pm
Hey guys, I finally got the 440 installed, and running.  We broke in the cam at my cousinís garage and noticed it didnít sound right when we were done and let the rpms come down to an idle.  So I trailered it to the guy who did the engine work and he quickly realized it was only running on 4 cylinders, and making an excessive amount of clatter under the valve covers.  Sure enough he removed the covers and 3 out of 4 push rods went right through the rockers on one side and 1 of 4 on the other side.  Attached is a video of it running on 4 cylinders after the half an hour cam break in process.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFP5HVqqz9E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFP5HVqqz9E)
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: Mc MOPAR on November 06, 2017 - 02:47:29 pm
The engine builder replaced the bent push rods, and replaced the original rockers with some expensive crane rockers.  Itís running better now, or at least on 8 cylinders anyway.  It still needs to gone through and have the timing set up, carb, etc.  I can tell you this, the Whiplash cam does have an extremely radical idle.  Here is a video of the stock 383 running with long tube headers, 3Ē dual exhaust, h-pipe, and flow master super 10 mufflers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvqFPA7H9FM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvqFPA7H9FM)

Here is a video of the 440 with the exact same exhaust system.  Itís a little hard to tell in the videos, but the 383 was surprisingly quiet and reserved with this exhaust system.  The 440 however is insanely loud.  It honestly sounds like open headers, it sounds like a drag car.  Every time I fire it up my neighbors all come to their windows to see what the noise is all about.  Apparently it actually shakes the windows of the house directly across from us, lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBkYMN-aPhM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBkYMN-aPhM)
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: Mc MOPAR on November 06, 2017 - 02:58:58 pm
Here are some pics of the 440 Installed.

Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: Mc MOPAR on November 06, 2017 - 03:10:01 pm
Pic 2
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: Mc MOPAR on November 06, 2017 - 03:12:10 pm
Pic 3
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: Mc MOPAR on November 06, 2017 - 03:14:19 pm
440 going in.
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: Mc MOPAR on November 06, 2017 - 03:15:29 pm
440 waiting to go in.
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: Mc MOPAR on November 06, 2017 - 03:16:51 pm
Just took the 383 out.
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: Mc MOPAR on November 06, 2017 - 03:18:14 pm
440 vs 383.
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: Mc MOPAR on November 06, 2017 - 03:19:32 pm
383 coming out.
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: Beekeeper on November 07, 2017 - 09:14:40 am
That 440 with the whiplash cam sounds great. I couldn't really tell how loud it was but I liked it with that exhaust system.
Title: Re: 440 - Best Intake & Carb???
Post by: darkside on July 24, 2018 - 04:58:55 pm
anyone running the torker 2 intake? Its lower than the sd and looks better.