Author Topic: Thinking of swapping 440 to 6.4 392. Need help.  (Read 2133 times)

Offline 7212Mopar

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 594
Re: Thinking of swapping 440 to 6.4 392. Need help.
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2017 - 03:41:41 pm »
Car value (number one)
EFI
Reliability
Wow factor
Quietness
Fuel Economy

I assume the 440 six pack was not original to the car? A 440 6 pack or a Gen II HEMI would be a bigger WOW for me and engine looks better than the new HEMI. I have a 2012 392 YJ and is by all means a nice car but not the same as my 73. Can't argue with the fuel economy. The best I ever got out of the 392 was around 18 mpg city/hwy combined. It is not easy to keep your feet off the go pedal.
1973 Challenger Rallye, AT with 1971 340
2012 Challenger SRT8 392 YJ,  6 spd




Offline JpRngr

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 71
Re: Thinking of swapping 440 to 6.4 392. Need help.
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2017 - 01:43:06 pm »
I think a lot of you guys are missing the boat on the newer Hemi's. Lot's of people are wanting the style of the older cars, but have come to expect a lot more out of a car than when our cars were produced. Hell a new Camry can spank most of the old muscle cars, unless a bunch of stuff has been done to it. People are willing to spend lots of money on a muscle car that can keep up with and/or exceed a modern car if they can have the style to go with it. OP gets it. Guarantee an updated car with a modern drive train is going to fetch more than all but a few old style muscle cars. Very hard to get anywhere near the drivability, mileage, and power for anywhere near the cost with the older drivetrains. And while you guys may not like the looks as much, some people do(I do), and are willing to pay more to get it. Don't believe me? Look on Lateral-G at the prices on some of the cars for sale(AND THEY DO SELL). Look at the cars RK Motorsports has for sale. Think they don't sell any of them? People are willing to spend to have the style AND the modern performance to go with it and big blocks definitely scream old school.

Corey

Online GoodysGotaCuda

  • Sr. Resident
  • ******
  • Posts: 5350
Thinking of swapping 440 to 6.4 392. Need help.
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2017 - 04:00:17 pm »
I think a lot of you guys are missing the boat on the newer Hemi's. Lot's of people are wanting the style of the older cars, but have come to expect a lot more out of a car than when our cars were produced. Hell a new Camry can spank most of the old muscle cars, unless a bunch of stuff has been done to it. People are willing to spend lots of money on a muscle car that can keep up with and/or exceed a modern car if they can have the style to go with it. OP gets it. Guarantee an updated car with a modern drive train is going to fetch more than all but a few old style muscle cars. Very hard to get anywhere near the drivability, mileage, and power for anywhere near the cost with the older drivetrains. And while you guys may not like the looks as much, some people do(I do), and are willing to pay more to get it. Don't believe me? Look on Lateral-G at the prices on some of the cars for sale(AND THEY DO SELL). Look at the cars RK Motorsports has for sale. Think they don't sell any of them? People are willing to spend to have the style AND the modern performance to go with it and big blocks definitely scream old school.

Corey



...I "get it" just fine.



I am the millennial with expendable income that wants a classic car that will outwit and out perform a car of today's standards. I am doing it in a DIY and budget-consensus manner to where I will not be in over my head and am not where near the ~$20k number being discussed [but am lower HP]. I expect the car to be worth what I have into it, if I ever -had- to sell. However I likely won't get a dime of my labor back in value, unfortunately.

I'm in it for the performance and reliability over the added value though, not losing my tail during the process is a bonus. 

The "~$20k", if that is how he chooses to go, is going to be tough to offset over a 440-6. If the thought is that the $20k investment will bring $30k in additional value, I don't think it will. A magnum trans would help over the TKO, however.  It -might- do that on a car that is not currently sought-after, like a Slant6 or a 318, but not a big block 6pack car. In my opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Build Page: Goody's 'Cuda Build Page
1976 Dodge Warlock
1972 Barracuda - 5.7 Hemi + T56 Magnum

Wheel & Tire Specs:Link

Offline 7212Mopar

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 594
Re: Thinking of swapping 440 to 6.4 392. Need help.
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2017 - 04:02:30 pm »
392 HEMI is a small block. I expect my 416 Stroker will be faster than my 392 also. With that said I do not mind covert I g my 73 into a G machine when I have the money. It will have a XV front and back.
1973 Challenger Rallye, AT with 1971 340
2012 Challenger SRT8 392 YJ,  6 spd

Offline RCCDrew

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1380
Re: Thinking of swapping 440 to 6.4 392. Need help.
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2017 - 10:58:53 am »
I really think that even more important than the modern engine swap is a modern transmission swap. My 73 Cuda and 16 Challenger RT are close to the same power/ weight ratio, I'm guessing. But after 60', the Challenger leaves the Cuda. The 8 speed automatic makes all the difference. It's always in the perfect gear. At least putting an overdrive transmission in will make a huge difference in drivability.

Offline daryld

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 87
Re: Thinking of swapping 440 to 6.4 392. Need help.
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2017 - 03:19:26 pm »
Appreciate the input.

Given your number one is car value, I would steer clear of this swap given what you currently have. It'll add a few bucks but nothing like the investment, especially if you pay to have the work done.

My car was a 318/automatic and now is a Hemi 6-speed manual, I will see an appreciation from that investment. A 440-6 car? not so much. It depends on the baseline you are starting with, and yours is quite high.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Daryl

Offline daryld

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 87
Re: Thinking of swapping 440 to 6.4 392. Need help.
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2017 - 03:40:44 pm »
Could not have said it better myself. I pay close attention to everything that sells. Rather it be at Barrett, Mecum or on the net. Muscle cars with new drive lines are selling for more than some matching number, perfectly restored cars. Today's buyer wants the look of the old car but the convenience of the new drive line. Especially because most are not mechanics but do have deep pockets. This is especially true for Chevy and Mopar. There are two yellow 70-71 Cuda's for sale right now with Gen 3 Hemi's. Both are nice cars but do not blow you away by any means. One is not even mini-tubbed. Both are asking around $120k. If I planned on keeping the car forever I would probably just keep the 440, put fuel injection and supercharge it. Would be a blast drive and I could care less about gas mileage. But I plan to flip the car so I am looking at any work done to the car as added value. From everything I have seen, a Gen 3 Hemi with an OD trans would bring much more money than a 440/6 pack or 440 with EFI. It is just want buyers want and they seem to be willing to pay for it. As for those who continue to think that this is a fad, I would only point out that Chevy guys have been using modern set ups since they came out with the LT1 and are still using this set up after several versions of the LS engine. Mopar owners are on their third Gen 3 engine. This is not a fad in my opinion and will only continue well into the future. But I do value everyone's opinion. It seems as if I just either have to bite the bullet and spend the money for the swap or ignore the highest value equation and do something fun. I will decide soon. Thanks guys.

I think a lot of you guys are missing the boat on the newer Hemi's. Lot's of people are wanting the style of the older cars, but have come to expect a lot more out of a car than when our cars were produced. Hell a new Camry can spank most of the old muscle cars, unless a bunch of stuff has been done to it. People are willing to spend lots of money on a muscle car that can keep up with and/or exceed a modern car if they can have the style to go with it. OP gets it. Guarantee an updated car with a modern drive train is going to fetch more than all but a few old style muscle cars. Very hard to get anywhere near the drivability, mileage, and power for anywhere near the cost with the older drivetrains. And while you guys may not like the looks as much, some people do(I do), and are willing to pay more to get it. Don't believe me? Look on Lateral-G at the prices on some of the cars for sale(AND THEY DO SELL). Look at the cars RK Motorsports has for sale. Think they don't sell any of them? People are willing to spend to have the style AND the modern performance to go with it and big blocks definitely scream old school.

Corey
Daryl

Offline JpRngr

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 71
Re: Thinking of swapping 440 to 6.4 392. Need help.
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2017 - 11:49:03 pm »
So, according to the figures you provided in your first post, even adding in a clutch and steering column, you'd be at $14,100. If you subtract the $6K you'd expect out of the old engine, you're just over $8K into the modern engine over what you have now. I believe you'd definitely be able to get that out of the car. $20K maybe/maybe not.

Forgot to mention, if that's your car in your avatar, I would be highly disappointed seeing such a sweet modern pro-touring car with an old school drive train.

Offline daryld

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 87
Re: Thinking of swapping 440 to 6.4 392. Need help.
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2017 - 12:13:06 am »
Problem solved. Bought a 2016 6.4 tonight for $4700 plus shipping. I am not going to install it for a few months because I have been without my Cuda for a few months now while I have been getting some work done and really want to drive the car. Will probably pull the motor in late fall. This will give me time to find good deals on all the things I need for the install. I have already found a good deal on a new bellhousing, flywheel and possibly some headers. Please let me know if you guys hear of any deals for these swaps.

Thanks for all your input. Although I do like my 440, I am sure I will love the convenience of the 392 and will enjoy not smelling like gas every time I drive my car. I started a build thread when I began the mini-tubs and 4-link. I will updating this thread soon as my new Rushforths should be coming in this week, hopefully. I will also use this same thread when I begin the swap.

Everyone have a great week.

Daryl
Daryl

Offline eck

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 9
Re: Thinking of swapping 440 to 6.4 392. Need help.
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2017 - 03:21:02 am »
I am actually right in the car so that is not the issue. I am just looking for opinions from members that have either considered the swap or made the swap. I would love to have the new Hemi but not sure I can justify the spend for the same or less HP when I can get EFI for a whole cheaper. Of course just slapping EFI on a 440 does not really increase the value, just the spend. Does make it nicer to drive though.

I have a 440 from Indy with a fast efi system. Once the fast system learned it is a dream to drive. If I were you I'd just go with efi gives you what you want with a lot less money.

Offline ragtopdodge

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 4041
Re: Thinking of swapping 440 to 6.4 392. Need help.
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2017 - 04:22:17 pm »
I would have kept the 440 and spent the money elsewhere, like maybe a 5 or 6-speed trans, suspension, brakes, etc.
'70 318-auto Chally 'vert
'71 383-auto 'Cuda 'vert (sold)
06 300c SRT8
04 2500 QCLB 4x4 HO