Author Topic: Thinking of swapping 440 to 6.4 392. Need help.  (Read 2503 times)

Offline daryld

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Thinking of swapping 440 to 6.4 392. Need help.
« on: June 08, 2017 - 03:31:22 pm »
Ok fellas, I have been kicking this idea around for a while and have been doing a lot of research. I did not realize how expensive it would be to swap my MP 440/6 pack to Gen 3 6.4 392 SRT8 and would like guidance from those who have done these installs so I do not miss anything in my calculations.

So I currently have a Mopar Performance 440/6 pack with aluminum heads pushing 486hp at the crank (great motor but no forged internals). It is connected to a TKO 600 with a cable clutch. I thought i had everything figured out regarding making the switch but am finding more and more things I might have to change which is driving the cost of the swap way up. So I would like everyone's input and opinions.

This is what i have found for my swap so far:

1. 2016 6.4 392 485hp with all accessories and 2k miles - $5500
2. Quick Time bellhousing - $400-650
3. Hays flywheel - $200-350
3. MP plug and play - $1600
4. TTI Headers - $800
5. EFI tank with everything needed - $1000
6. Radiator w Fans - $1000
7. Cold Air Induction - $300
8. Motor mounts for Magnumforce suspension - $600
9. Mid sump oil pan and pick up - $350
10.45 degree oil filter change - $100
11. Mini starter (possibly) - $350

I thought this was it but I am now unsure if my current clutch will work and it is suggested that I switch to a hydraulic clutch which means more money. My current clutch was for my 440 and looks like it is a 18 spline where the Gen 3's appear to need a 26 from what I have read. 

11. New Clutch kit including Wilwood valve $500-1500

I am also now reading that my current Mopar steering column may not work so this could be more money.

12. New steering column $1000

I believe this is everything but definitely want everyone's feedback. As you can plainly see we are now around $14-15k without installation, labor or any engine mods/upgrades. Can anyone tell me if I missed something?

The thing is, I refuse to put money into a toy that I do not think will help increase the value. I do believe the swap will increase value but will it increase the value by $20k? Possibly. I do have other options that could dress up the engine bay, add HP and probably increase the value. For me, adding fuel injection has become a must. I hate smelling like gas every time I get out my Cuda and the typical carb issues.

Option 2: Add a Torque Storm Supercharger with fuel injection. This should increase the HP by 80hp and give me the modern convenience everyone is looking for. The great thing is I will not have to make many changes and it should help increase the value. Let me know what you guys think.

1. Single Torque Storm Supercharger (black) - $3000
2. Fitech 4 barrel EFI set up - $1200
3. 4 barrel intake - $350
4. EFI fuel tank set up - $1000
5. Fuel by-pass - $200
6. MSD ignition with boost control - $450
7. Misc - $250

So now we are looking at a much more simple install with EFI and added HP for $6k. This should also increase the value of the car by at least the invested amount while making it a lot of fun to drive and appealing to future buyers.

Option 3: F&B Tri Power EFI

1. Complete EFI set up $5000
2. EFI tank set up - $1000

This set up cost the about same as option two but is a more difficult install from what I have read and harder to tune. It does offer a little of the 'Wow" factor while providing fuel injection but I am not sure how much real value I will gain. Plus it will not make the car nearly as much fun to drive as option two.

So this is my dilemma. I was extremely close to pulling the trigger on the Gen 3 392 swap until I started adding up the entire cost of the change. This is also with a used motor and finding good deals on a lot of the items needed for the swap. I definitely feel it will help increase the value of my car but spending $15-20k for the swap may not bring the type of increase I feel that would justify the cost and energy it would take to do it. It does bring the convenience that new engines bring to everyday driving and track use, but I think I can get some of that with the Fitech set up. I should also include the fact that I will be able to sell my current 440 set up from rad to flywheel turn key, including the March pulley system that has PS and A/C, for around $5k I believe. This would offset some of the incurred cost but it would still cost me over $10-15k with installation of all the option one items. Not to mention the added down time while in the shop and getting all the bugs worked out.

I would really appreciate everyone's advice and opinions. From being on this site, I know we have a lot of die hard, old school fans that will probably like option two or three over one, and I do not disagree. But I look at the financial return as much as the options themselves because I plan to sell the car one day in order to get into another toy. So please consider that this car will be flipped one day when sharing your thoughts and opinions.

Thanks for taking time to read this very long thread. I really value you guys opinions. Everyone have a blessed day.

Daryl



Daryl




Offline 1 Wild R/T

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Re: Thinking of swapping 440 to 6.4 392. Need help.
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2017 - 05:18:31 pm »
If you need to be money ahead stop now.... Your likely already behind & the more you spend the further behind you'll be....
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Offline RCCDrew

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Re: Thinking of swapping 440 to 6.4 392. Need help.
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2017 - 05:23:07 pm »
Just one opinion, but you aren't getting a benefit for the investment of the hemi. No more HP. IMO, twin turbo FI 440. Wow factor and added HP for less money.

Offline TelisSE440

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Re: Thinking of swapping 440 to 6.4 392. Need help.
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2017 - 05:29:07 pm »
You surely need one who has made the swap to the end. The more you dig, the more you find... Unless you want excellent reliability and good gas milage, the 440 is the engine to have...

Offline daryld

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Re: Thinking of swapping 440 to 6.4 392. Need help.
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2017 - 06:25:00 pm »
If you need to be money ahead stop now.... Your likely already behind & the more you spend the further behind you'll be....

I am actually right in the car so that is not the issue. I am just looking for opinions from members that have either considered the swap or made the swap. I would love to have the new Hemi but not sure I can justify the spend for the same or less HP when I can get EFI for a whole cheaper. Of course just slapping EFI on a 440 does not really increase the value, just the spend. Does make it nicer to drive though.
Daryl

Offline daryld

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Re: Thinking of swapping 440 to 6.4 392. Need help.
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2017 - 06:29:32 pm »
Just one opinion, but you aren't getting a benefit for the investment of the hemi. No more HP. IMO, twin turbo FI 440. Wow factor and added HP for less money.

Absolutely, a GEN 3 Hemi will definitely bring the value of the car up from having a 440. But will it bring it up $15-20k to justify the spend, not sure about that. Twin turbo's would be awesome but you are probably looking at $7k at a minimum for just the turbos and piping. Plus my 440 does not have forged internals so it probably would not last long before it blew up. I Torque Storm single supercharger is only $3k and can be run at 6 psi without motor issues. But thanks for the opinion.
Daryl

Offline GoodysGotaCuda

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Re: Thinking of swapping 440 to 6.4 392. Need help.
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2017 - 12:22:41 am »
I'm in my phone so it's hard to give too much detailed help, but I am not sure your numbers align with what I am thinking.

A low boost early 5.7L Hemi will easily hit your power number, reliably.

The fuel system does not need to be $1000, more like $500.

I am not sure what the $1000 steering column change is getting you.

A new starter is $80 at autozone, not $350.

Cold air intake is at or less than $100.

Radiator and fans, about $400.

Everything else seems close. If you are paying someone to do the work, I would have to suggest stopping where you are at now. You will not end up ahead. I am in my engine and trans for about $10k, basic 5.7L [330-350whp] and a brand new T56 Magnum swap from SST [auto to 6spd swap.


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Offline wantone

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Re: Thinking of swapping 440 to 6.4 392. Need help.
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2017 - 12:50:28 am »
.how much are you selling the 440 for though?   Gotta figure that out tho... I'm interested possibly.
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Offline JpRngr

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Re: Thinking of swapping 440 to 6.4 392. Need help.
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2017 - 01:53:36 am »
Do you already have a Magnumforce front end under it? You priced the motor mounts for it. If so, you should have already addressed the steering column when installing it. I modified my stock column to go to the R&P when I installed the Transformer suspension.

Wouldn't think you should have to change the column otherwise.

I got my Tanks Inc tank and pump for around $500.

As far as the clutch, can't tell you one way or another if the one you have will work or not, but the spline count has to do with the input shaft of the transmission. So, changing the engine shouldn't affect what spline count clutch you need. Also, if the clutch cable is working fine now and you are happy with how it feels, I would try making it work. Again, changing the engine shouldn't affect it.


Corey

Offline 7212Mopar

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Re: Thinking of swapping 440 to 6.4 392. Need help.
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2017 - 03:06:56 am »
May be I missed it. What was your reason to change to a 392 ending at the same HP level spending $20k?
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Offline daryld

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Re: Thinking of swapping 440 to 6.4 392. Need help.
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2017 - 09:42:07 am »
Thanks for the reply. You are correct on some things but I am not considering a boosted 5.7 but a 6.4. Not that it is a big deal and i am not really concerned about raw HP as long as it is not less than what i currently have.

The fuel system is definitely $100. The tank, pump and sending unit are $500 alone for Tanksinc. The lines and everything else needed for the swap are another $500 but I could probably do that cheaper or reuse some of what i have.

I am not sure changing my steering column is necessary but wanted to know if it was. I was also unsure if I could use a cable clutch or was forced, for some reason, to change to a hydraulic.

Good info on the starter.

If I can find a cold air intake for $100 I would be very happy.

I think I can do a Champion aluminium radiator with fans for $400-500 instead of some of the more expensive units.

So this could save me $1000 but the point is this is still a very expensive swap. Question still remains, how much value does it increase the car over what I currently have. That is my dilemma.

Thanks for the response.

I'm in my phone so it's hard to give too much detailed help, but I am not sure your numbers align with what I am thinking.

A low boost early 5.7L Hemi will easily hit your power number, reliably.

The fuel system does not need to be $1000, more like $500.

I am not sure what the $1000 steering column change is getting you.

A new starter is $80 at autozone, not $350.

Cold air intake is at or less than $100.

Radiator and fans, about $400.

Everything else seems close. If you are paying someone to do the work, I would have to suggest stopping where you are at now. You will not end up ahead. I am in my engine and trans for about $10k, basic 5.7L [330-350whp] and a brand new T56 Magnum swap from SST [auto to 6spd swap.


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Daryl

Offline daryld

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Re: Thinking of swapping 440 to 6.4 392. Need help.
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2017 - 09:43:17 am »
.how much are you selling the 440 for though?   Gotta figure that out tho... I'm interested possibly.

Probably somewhere around $5-6k for everything turn key with radiator and everything else I would not need.
Daryl

Offline daryld

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Re: Thinking of swapping 440 to 6.4 392. Need help.
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2017 - 09:45:53 am »
May be I missed it. What was your reason to change to a 392 ending at the same HP level spending $20k?

Car value (number one)
EFI
Reliability
Wow factor
Quietness
Fuel Economy


Daryl

Offline GoodysGotaCuda

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Thinking of swapping 440 to 6.4 392. Need help.
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2017 - 12:37:17 pm »
Car value (number one)
EFI
Reliability
Wow factor
Quietness
Fuel Economy

Given your number one is car value, I would steer clear of this swap given what you currently have. It'll add a few bucks but nothing like the investment, especially if you pay to have the work done.

My car was a 318/automatic and now is a Hemi 6-speed manual, I will see an appreciation from that investment. A 440-6 car? not so much. It depends on the baseline you are starting with, and yours is quite high.


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« Last Edit: June 09, 2017 - 12:38:50 pm by GoodysGotaCuda »
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Offline RCCDrew

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Re: Thinking of swapping 440 to 6.4 392. Need help.
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2017 - 02:14:31 pm »
 :thumbsup:  Want to add value? Put in a stroked 2nd gen hemi.  :thumbsup:
Given your number one is car value, I would steer clear of this swap given what you currently have. It'll add a few bucks but nothing like the investment, especially if you pay to have the work done.

My car was a 318/automatic and now is a Hemi 6-speed manual, I will see an appreciation from that investment. A 440-6 car? not so much. It depends on the baseline you are starting with, and yours is quite high.


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« Last Edit: June 09, 2017 - 02:16:35 pm by RCCDrew »