Author Topic: Saving a 4 speed JH car  (Read 12047 times)

Offline 70chall440

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Re: Saving a 4 speed JH car
« Reply #195 on: August 16, 2017 - 11:29:33 am »
Think of it this way, you have to sub-structure (frame and floor) and the super-structure (outer skins like the quarters, Dutchman panel, etc) (BTW these are my terms, not industry official terms); I would recommend you leave as much of the super structure in place as possible and repair the sub-structure at least to a point that it can take a load. The frame rails along with the trunk floor serve as the foundation for the rest, therefore you need to get that in and located, and if possible secured strongly. After that, you can build up and out (wheel houses, trunk lid hinge supports, Dutchman panel, quarters, taillight panel, trunk extensions, rear valance (fitting it).

I am pretty sure this feels a bit overwhelming (I feel overwhelmed looking at the pictures), but you have come this far and are doing an excellent job. Again, these cars were not well constructed when new, with the focus you have and the attention to detail you are applying, this car will be constructed better than when it was first built.

I am pretty adventurous when it comes to cars and the work load I would take on, but I am not sure I would have taken on this project. That said, I am very impressed with what you have done thus far and the hobby will be better because you have saved this car. Yes, it is going to absorb money like a sponge, they all do, but in the end no one will believe what you started with and what you achieved. You definitely "got this" and will forever be able to look at the car and know "I did it". Throwing a drive train into one of these along with an interior and perhaps paint is childs play compared to what you are doing, you are truly "building" a complete car. Hang in there and continue to take it slowly and methodically, it will turn out just fine.
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6, 73 Cuda (under const)
05 Durango, 99 Dakota, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR, 61 Jeep FC170
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)




Offline Beekeeper

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Re: Saving a 4 speed JH car
« Reply #196 on: August 16, 2017 - 10:45:36 pm »
Thanks...I look back to the things I could do ten years ago like drive train, disassembly and reassembly and yeah, it really seems simple now. When I started on the front end, I was gently wading in and trying not to get in over my head. Now, this set back doesn't really phase me. I just see it as more time and labor.

Im gonna be optimistic and predict rear end completion before Christmas. Then I can sandblast the car and double check for any metal work that I overlooked. I have my 383 all ready to install. I'm dying to hear it run.

Offline jimynick

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Re: Saving a 4 speed JH car
« Reply #197 on: August 16, 2017 - 10:51:50 pm »
Think of it this way, you have to sub-structure (frame and floor) and the super-structure (outer skins like the quarters, Dutchman panel, etc) (BTW these are my terms, not industry official terms); I would recommend you leave as much of the super structure in place as possible and repair the sub-structure at least to a point that it can take a load. The frame rails along with the trunk floor serve as the foundation for the rest, therefore you need to get that in and located, and if possible secured strongly. After that, you can build up and out (wheel houses, trunk lid hinge supports, Dutchman panel, quarters, taillight panel, trunk extensions, rear valance (fitting it).

I am pretty sure this feels a bit overwhelming (I feel overwhelmed looking at the pictures), but you have come this far and are doing an excellent job. Again, these cars were not well constructed when new, with the focus you have and the attention to detail you are applying, this car will be constructed better than when it was first built.

I am pretty adventurous when it comes to cars and the work load I would take on, but I am not sure I would have taken on this project. That said, I am very impressed with what you have done thus far and the hobby will be better because you have saved this car. Yes, it is going to absorb money like a sponge, they all do, but in the end no one will believe what you started with and what you achieved. You definitely "got this" and will forever be able to look at the car and know "I did it". Throwing a drive train into one of these along with an interior and perhaps paint is childs play compared to what you are doing, you are truly "building" a complete car. Hang in there and continue to take it slowly and methodically, it will turn out just fine.
Accurate observations and good advice! Using the rear floor pan as a template, you should be able to get the rails in and pretty close to where you want them in conjunction with your previous measurements and a support across their back ends to prevent sag. I'd lightly tack them and toss in the floor and clamp the extensions on temporarily so that you can get the whlhses in and then the 1/4's. If you're saving the inr whlhses they'll give you a further guide to hang the tin and you can always cut them out later should you so desire. Leaving the upr trunk panel will also leave your trunk hinges and torque rods intact and that'll help as you put on the deck and align it to the 1/4's. If you have any vertical issues that cause pie-shaped door/qtr gaps this is where you can lower or raise the rails and trunk floor to correct that before you weld. Assemble the rear sheet metal, chase your gaps and buy stock in the Cleco and Vice-grip corporations laddie! LOL  :cheers:


Offline 70chall440

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Re: Saving a 4 speed JH car
« Reply #198 on: August 17, 2017 - 01:16:07 pm »
 :iagree: :2thumbs:
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6, 73 Cuda (under const)
05 Durango, 99 Dakota, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR, 61 Jeep FC170
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline Beekeeper

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Re: Saving a 4 speed JH car
« Reply #199 on: August 17, 2017 - 06:10:33 pm »
ill keep posting. In the meantime, I have been cutting away the bad metal getting everything prepared. I'll try it as you guys suggest. I have all metal standing by except for quarters. Those suckers are kinda pricey

Offline 70chall440

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Re: Saving a 4 speed JH car
« Reply #200 on: August 17, 2017 - 07:38:21 pm »
They are but they are worth it, no patches or other bad metal. On my Cuda I did both quarters, both fenders and the drivers door skin..
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6, 73 Cuda (under const)
05 Durango, 99 Dakota, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR, 61 Jeep FC170
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline Beekeeper

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Re: Saving a 4 speed JH car
« Reply #201 on: August 19, 2017 - 07:00:45 pm »
Spent some time today cutting away old brackets and getting them onto the new metal pieces. Some are just too far gone to salvage. My new rear rails have a bracket on the inside of each for e brake cables but my old one is different. Must be a 70 only thing. I Couldn't find this e brake bracket aftermarket so I was forced to fab my own.




Offline 70chall440

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Re: Saving a 4 speed JH car
« Reply #202 on: August 19, 2017 - 11:54:19 pm »
I think you are right in that bracket is a 70 only deal. Great job.
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6, 73 Cuda (under const)
05 Durango, 99 Dakota, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR, 61 Jeep FC170
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline YellowThumper

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Re: Saving a 4 speed JH car
« Reply #203 on: August 20, 2017 - 11:21:38 pm »
Spent some time today cutting away old brackets and getting them onto the new metal pieces. Some are just too far gone to salvage. My new rear rails have a bracket on the inside of each for e brake cables but my old one is different. Must be a 70 only thing. I Couldn't find this e brake bracket aftermarket so I was forced to fab my own.





Good job on the bracket. However I would add some lips on it that matches the old one. They add strength. If not concerned about factory looks then just add a gusset or two.

Mike
Removing the warning labels one at a time.
Nature will take care of the rest.

Offline Beekeeper

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Re: Saving a 4 speed JH car
« Reply #204 on: August 20, 2017 - 11:56:02 pm »
I was thinking about that too. When I made this one, I was thinking how I could roll the edges to get the original look but decided it just wasn't that important to me. I figure it can't be seen unless you're under the car and what's the point since I'm adding SFC and torque boxes.

I was considering about adding a small gusset in the middle. It would be a piece of cake with the rail out of the car. Not sure if it is really needed but I guess those cables could give a pretty hard tug to it. It would be a sucky job to have to do it later while it's in the car.

Offline 70chall440

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Re: Saving a 4 speed JH car
« Reply #205 on: August 21, 2017 - 11:51:14 am »
I would recommend putting an edge on it if possible; it will look more original and provide the strength needed. If you use the parking brake, these can see a fair amount of force.
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6, 73 Cuda (under const)
05 Durango, 99 Dakota, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR, 61 Jeep FC170
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline jimynick

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Re: Saving a 4 speed JH car
« Reply #206 on: August 21, 2017 - 10:48:55 pm »
Putting an edge on that now will be a royal PITA. Perhaps a couple wee pie shaped ones on the ends? They won't look oem, but that's up to you to decide whether it matters or not.  :cheers:

Offline Beekeeper

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Re: Saving a 4 speed JH car
« Reply #207 on: August 21, 2017 - 11:23:44 pm »
I got a brace added first thing this morning. Not overly concerned about maintaining an original look at this spot under the car. The metal I used is slightly thicker than original as well. I'm certain there won't be any flex now.

Offline YellowThumper

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Re: Saving a 4 speed JH car
« Reply #208 on: August 22, 2017 - 11:35:57 pm »
I got a brace added first thing this morning. Not overly concerned about maintaining an original look at this spot under the car. The metal I used is slightly thicker than original as well. I'm certain there won't be any flex now.
:2thumbs:
Removing the warning labels one at a time.
Nature will take care of the rest.

Offline Beekeeper

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Re: Saving a 4 speed JH car
« Reply #209 on: October 10, 2017 - 09:01:48 pm »
Finally got a good day of work in on the car without 100 degree weather. Right frame rail and leaf spring brace is all out and I'll be painting in some rustseal paint for good measure before the new rails go in. Still need to get the left rail out but at least on that side, the leaf spring plate is in nice shape.