Barracuda Challenger Forum

Author Topic: Clean Slate, bang for the buck discussion.  (Read 917 times)

Offline RCCDrew

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Clean Slate, bang for the buck discussion.
« on: February 21, 2017 - 10:08:31 am »
So, if you could start with a clean slate, what would you choose for the most bang for the buck Mopar build? I have a 340 in my Cuda that I want more from. I have the 340, 360 magnum, 400, 440 and 3 383s. I even have a pair of turbos lying around. I will consider a new Hemi if it's worth the hp per dollar. The 340 is a great running stock piece; the other engines all need rebuilds. My only requirements are, must have overdrive and must run pump gas, and must have > 500 hp. Not a race car, just a fast street toy.
Any input appreciated.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2017 - 10:10:27 am by RCCDrew »




Offline rUNCHARGER

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Re: Clean Slate, bang for the buck discussion.
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2017 - 11:47:57 am »
I think, bang for buck with no drama and re-engineering it is hard to beat the old reliable 440. If the stock crank is in good shape build it stock stroke, if not a $2000 stroker and some $1500 aluminum heads make a good basis for an easy 550 driveable HP.

Sheldon

Offline 1 Wild R/T

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Re: Clean Slate, bang for the buck discussion.
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2017 - 12:35:56 pm »
And I would look at the 400 pushed out to 470...
JS27N0B 70 Challenger R/T Convertible  FJ5 Sublime, Show Poodle w/90,000 miles since resto
WS27L8G 68 Coronet R/T Convertible  PP1 Bright Red, Project
RM21H9E 69 Road Runner Coupe R4 Performance Red, Sold...
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Offline Flatdad

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Re: Clean Slate, bang for the buck discussion.
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2017 - 12:56:05 pm »
What's the hard number for the budget? What is the car used for?

You could turbo stock 318's until you're sick of 'em and still be dollars ahead of anything else while going really friggin' fast! break one... put another in... break it... repeat...
'70 Road Runner-B7 383 Auto, now with more cubes
'97 Ram 1500 Sport 4x4-Bright Red 318 magnum
'67 Belvedere II-Dark Blue 318 Auto, now owned by my brother
'73 Challenger Rallye-B5 318 Auto, had a 360 in it, SOLD :(
'42 Harley Davidson 42WLA-U.S. army green 45ci flathead
'71 Challenger R/T-B5 383 Auto, now 400 powered and rusty!
'86 W100-Yellow 318-2bbl 4x4 4spd, off road toy

Offline RCCDrew

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Re: Clean Slate, bang for the buck discussion.
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2017 - 02:19:02 pm »
The only problem with the 440 is that its cast crank.
The 400 stroker or 440 based stroker are good ideas, but I would consider the 383 since I have more of them. Dollar figure is the downside.
The small block turbo car sounds like tons of fun. Reliability is the issue.

I guess it's the hot rod triangle. Fast, cheap, reliable. You can only pick 2.

Offline shawge

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Re: Clean Slate, bang for the buck discussion.
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2017 - 04:56:54 pm »
I've gt a 451 stroker using the kit from 440 source. Could not be happier, well maybe if I went with the 470 kit ;)  Final cost for around 5k but I had the machine shop do most of the work (mock ups, fitting, etc)  A lot of that could be shaved off by doing your own work.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2017 - 04:59:23 pm by shawge »
- Jerry

Offline 734406pk

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Re: Clean Slate, bang for the buck discussion.
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2017 - 10:20:12 pm »
For curiosity sake, would you know the casting numbers on the 400 block? 
1973 Challenger 440 6 pack auto 3.91 rear
2012 Dodge Ram 3500 dually 6.7 Cummins Fleece EFI Live
1973 Challenger 318 2bbl auto 2.73 rear 22.5 mpg RIP
1970 Challenger TA 340 4bbl auto-Sold and sad
1999 Dodge Ram 3500 dually 5.9 Cummins Fleece tuned VGT-sold
1995 Kawasaki ZX1100E & still alive

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Clean Slate, bang for the buck discussion.
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2017 - 10:36:52 pm »
New Hemi offers advantage too with EFI it is a modern reliable engine & will run better on modern crap fuel . Buying the 392 kit from Mopar is not cheap or an easy install a used engine makes the swap much more budget friendly .
 400/ 451 or 440/ 512 are awesome you can do a mild build with stock heads etc or or go to Trick flow & EFI & really rank out some serious power .
 I have always wanted to do a twin turbo build

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline RCCDrew

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Re: Clean Slate, bang for the buck discussion.
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2017 - 08:36:51 am »
For curiosity sake, would you know the casting numbers on the 400 block?
No. I know it came from a late 70s ramcharger.

Offline 734406pk

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Re: Clean Slate, bang for the buck discussion.
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2017 - 10:49:29 am »
No. I know it came from a late 70s ramcharger.


Late 70's would likely be casting number 4006530-400. The main bearing saddle supports aren't as thick as an early 70's 400 block (3614230 & 3698630), but still has much more thickness than a 383 or 440 in the main saddle support area. The 400 would make a good foundation for turbocharging IMO.

 http://www.440source.com/blockinfo.htm
1973 Challenger 440 6 pack auto 3.91 rear
2012 Dodge Ram 3500 dually 6.7 Cummins Fleece EFI Live
1973 Challenger 318 2bbl auto 2.73 rear 22.5 mpg RIP
1970 Challenger TA 340 4bbl auto-Sold and sad
1999 Dodge Ram 3500 dually 5.9 Cummins Fleece tuned VGT-sold
1995 Kawasaki ZX1100E & still alive

Offline moper

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Re: Clean Slate, bang for the buck discussion.
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2017 - 11:57:02 pm »
So, if you could start with a clean slate, what would you choose for the most bang for the buck Mopar build? I have a 340 in my Cuda that I want more from. I have the 340, 360 magnum, 400, 440 and 3 383s. I even have a pair of turbos lying around. I will consider a new Hemi if it's worth the hp per dollar. The 340 is a great running stock piece; the other engines all need rebuilds. My only requirements are, must have overdrive and must run pump gas, and must have > 500 hp. Not a race car, just a fast street toy.
Any input appreciated.

I get the OD, I get the basic ideas, but why the "500 hp" requirement? Is there a certain performance you want to reach or racing or what? Any factory displacement engine will be a compromise in driveability and cost to reach it. Strokers cost more, I use 30% as a round figure over a factory displacement using the same block. A 500hp streetable 440 will make that power around 5800rpm and make similar torque numbers and run around $8K depending on builder and parts used. A 505 (based on the 440) would make 525+ around 5200 with a lot more torque lower down, and run around $11K again depending on the builder and parts. Plus you need the transmission and associated parts. A small block stroker would make around 480 with 500+ torque for about $3K less than the 505 and you have the trans, exhaust, etc. So it's all about your choice. Pick one and go...

Offline RCCDrew

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Re: Clean Slate, bang for the buck discussion.
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2017 - 05:21:01 am »
The 500 hp is just a target. Really to be respectable on the street nowadays you should be in that range. It's really about going out and having fun and surprising people.

Offline moper

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Re: Clean Slate, bang for the buck discussion.
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2017 - 12:54:12 am »
I think we have differing versions of what's "respectable" these days. There are few cars that actually have that power, even though every cruise night car owner says they do. A big block will always get more attention but there's less "surprise" as a result. I think the value for you would be the small block option but to make that power lever you will need some real heads, headers, and a camshaft that will mean you need manual brakes (Not enough vacuum for the power booster).

Offline dodj

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Re: Clean Slate, bang for the buck discussion.
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2017 - 10:02:16 am »
It's really about going out and having fun and surprising people.
Hard to surprise people with a 'cuda. They EXPECT performance out of an old e-body.  :burnout:
Scott
1973 Challenger  440 4 spd 
2007.5 3500 6.7 Cummins Diesel, Anarchy tuned.
Good friends don't let friends do stupid things. ........alone.

Offline RCCDrew

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Re: Clean Slate, bang for the buck discussion.
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2017 - 05:26:28 pm »
I think we have differing versions of what's "respectable" these days. There are few cars that actually have that power, even though every cruise night car owner says they do. A big block will always get more attention but there's less "surprise" as a result. I think the value for you would be the small block option but to make that power lever you will need some real heads, headers, and a camshaft that will mean you need manual brakes (Not enough vacuum for the power booster).
I know what you mean, but I'm talking about the Scat Pack Challenger with 485 showroom hp. Or the Hellcat. My 16 RT has 390. Out of 345 ci!  I don't want a world beater, just a cool car that won't get embarrassed.