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Chryco's Tech Shop => The Body Shop sponsored by AUTO METAL DIRECT => Topic started by: chargerdon on February 26, 2017 - 11:20:55 am

Title: Rear Bumper Valance hole cover
Post by: chargerdon on February 26, 2017 - 11:20:55 am
Hi, I have a 74 Challenger, which came with those big ugly bumper guards.  I left them off my car but that leaves the gaps on the rear valance.   Will 70-72 bumper guards fit and fill in the holes? 

Example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/391466183227?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com/itm/391466183227?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)   or

http://www.ebay.com/itm/182257335056?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com/itm/182257335056?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)

Not the least bit worried about "originality". 

Title: Re: Rear Bumper Valance hole cover
Post by: 1 Wild R/T on February 26, 2017 - 11:43:47 am
If you use early bumper brackets the early guards work...  If you use late brackets the guards are left floating 2" away from the valance...

I would also consider blacking out the center section between the tail lights...
Title: Re: Rear Bumper Valance hole cover
Post by: chargerdon on February 26, 2017 - 12:33:52 pm
What about bumpers ?   I bought a new front bumper for my 74 from Rock Auto for only $185 vs classic industries $279 and the fit and quality were fine.   Unfortunately they are out of stock for 1974 rear bumper...BUT..they do have 1973 rear bumper for $192 again vs classic industries $279.   Looking at pictures on classic industries I dont see any difference.   

Would a 1973 rear bumper work??   Or are there differences that cant be seen in the pictures?   
Title: Re: Rear Bumper Valance hole cover
Post by: 1 Wild R/T on February 26, 2017 - 01:12:59 pm
If they show a 70-71 bumper that would be my choice... Previously I thought the only difference was the slot for the bumper jack that showed up in 71 but apparently starting in 72 or 73 they started using more bolts to mount the bumper so if you use the early bracket which tucks the bumper in closer to the body you don't need a bunch of extra holes.....
Title: Re: Rear Bumper Valance hole cover
Post by: blown motor on February 26, 2017 - 01:16:08 pm
I welded a patch into those holes in the valence and repainted it. If you can match the paint well enough it works great and looks good. Can likely get you a picture this week if you want.
Title: Re: Rear Bumper Valance hole cover
Post by: chargerdon on February 27, 2017 - 07:50:18 am
Trying to save some money, so not going to purchase the older brackets.   So, will the 73 bumper work??  Both Rock Auto and Classic Car Industries list different part numbers for 1973 and 1974.   But on ebay I saw three different bumper listings showing the same one for 73 and 74. 

Example: See: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1973-1974-Dodge-Challenger-Premium-Chrome-Rear-Bumper-w-Jack-Slots-MADE-IN-USA-/172251263946?fits=Year%3A1974%7CMake%3ADodge%7CModel%3AChallenger&hash=item281af9b3ca:g:VygAAOSwv0tVZjka&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1973-1974-Dodge-Challenger-Premium-Chrome-Rear-Bumper-w-Jack-Slots-MADE-IN-USA-/172251263946?fits=Year%3A1974%7CMake%3ADodge%7CModel%3AChallenger&hash=item281af9b3ca:g:VygAAOSwv0tVZjka&vxp=mtr)   

and

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1973-1974-Dodge-Challenger-rear-bumper-OEM-/182468254506?hash=item2a7bf49b2a:g:GOwAAOSwD0lUb~4J&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1973-1974-Dodge-Challenger-rear-bumper-OEM-/182468254506?hash=item2a7bf49b2a:g:GOwAAOSwD0lUb~4J&vxp=mtr)

So are the 73 and 74 the same or what is the difference?  Will a 73 work.   If you look carefully at them the attachment bolt holes appear to be in the same places.   Would a 73 work? 
Title: Re: Rear Bumper Valance hole cover
Post by: burdar on February 27, 2017 - 01:41:24 pm
Bumper brackets are different between 73 and 74.  That might make the bumpers different...not sure though.  Personally, I don't like it when the valance slots are filled.  It just looks like a mistake to me.  I'd put the earlier bumper guards on it like your thinking.  :2cents:
Title: Re: Rear Bumper Valance hole cover
Post by: Moparparts on February 28, 2017 - 05:42:46 pm
The brackets, reinforcement and the Chrome face bar are all different from a 73 to a 74
Title: Re: Rear Bumper Valance hole cover
Post by: dodj on February 28, 2017 - 10:23:28 pm
I welded a patch into those holes in the valence and repainted it. If you can match the paint well enough it works great and looks good. Can likely get you a picture this week if you want.
That's what I did as well. Tnless you want to start moving in the bumpers, it's the only choice you have. The other fillers won't fit.
Title: Re: Rear Bumper Valance hole cover
Post by: rhamson on March 01, 2017 - 02:01:32 pm
If they show a 70-71 bumper that would be my choice... Previously I thought the only difference was the slot for the bumper jack that showed up in 71 but apparently starting in 72 or 73 they started using more bolts to mount the bumper so if you use the early bracket which tucks the bumper in closer to the body you don't need a bunch of extra holes.....
I was at Carlisle a few years back and was looking at Stephen's bumpers. The guy told me '71 did not have the jack slots and that was what I was planning to use. He also noted that the Keystone bumpers were eons above anything else out there in quality and from what I could see he was right. I have eliminated and filled in the bumperette holes on the valance as well and noticed with the bumper mounted the valance had a tendency to sag down below the bumpers lower edge so I pushed it up to line those two lines together. When it is finished it will look a lot better.
Title: Re: Rear Bumper Valance hole cover
Post by: burdar on March 01, 2017 - 02:07:44 pm
Quote
The guy told me '71 did not have the jack slots

Jack slots showed up on late 71's.
Title: Re: Rear Bumper Valance hole cover
Post by: rhamson on March 01, 2017 - 02:17:20 pm
Jack slots showed up on late 71's.
I learn something new everyday and especially when it comes to cars. As a teen I worked on a lot of motorcycles where the manufacturer would change parts month to month. That was in Honda's mostly. I once took a points plate from a 1969 Honda 65 and screwed it right on a 1958 Honda 250 that was missing its' plate and it was a direct fit. Who would have thunk it. :clueless:
Title: Re: Rear Bumper Valance hole cover
Post by: chargerdon on March 01, 2017 - 08:00:32 pm
Guys, sure would like to know exactly what is the difference in the chrome facing (bumper) between the 73 and 74.   Sure makes you wonder when 3 different listings on ebay say 73-74 for rear bumper...   I can certainly believe that due to more stringent laws the 74 brackets are probably heavier duty than the 73, but, are the chrome facings different??  Holes look the same.  But then classic industries lists two different numbers for 73 and for 74. 

Restoring these cars costs more than they are worth, so, if a 73 from rock auto would fit either perfectly or with a minor adjustment Id buy from them keep about $90 to use elsewhere on the car.   Wish they had their 74 in stock! 
Title: Re: Rear Bumper Valance hole cover
Post by: dodj on March 01, 2017 - 08:59:00 pm
If I remember right, the bolt holes are in different places. 73 and 74 brackets are different.
Title: Re: Rear Bumper Valance hole cover
Post by: burdar on March 02, 2017 - 11:33:40 am
If you are going to remove the stock bumper guards, you should also move the bumpers in to the 70-72 position and remove the rubber filler strips.  The bumpers will look goofy if you leave them in the 73-74 position without the big bumper guards.  If you move them in, you can also get rid of the heavy reinforcements behind the bumpers.

The front can be moved in by just drilling some holes in the stock bumper brackets.  There are some square holes directly in front of the stock mounting holes.  Drill those to 5/8" and they become your new mounting holes.

As for the rear, a 74 uses bumper brackets that look similar to the 70-72 pieces(flat bar stock) but locate the bumper farther away from the body.  You'll have to cut/lap/weld the stock brackets to move the rear bumper in. 

To figure out the differences between 73 and 74, you need to start by measuring all the holes in your stock bumper and posting that information online.(with pictures)  Then, someone with a 73 can do the same.  You might be able to get away with using a 73 bumper.  If there are any extra holes, you can just fill them with an extra fastener.

If I had access to my 73, I'd measure them for you.  All I can do is post this picture which may or may not help since it isn't a "straight-on" shot.  From this angle though, it does look like the outside holes on the 74 bumper might be farther apart.

(http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q229/burdar/73%20Challenger/challenger/81912009.jpg) (http://s137.photobucket.com/user/burdar/media/73%20Challenger/challenger/81912009.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Rear Bumper Valance hole cover
Post by: rhamson on March 02, 2017 - 12:52:59 pm
I looked on Classic Industries and Year Ones sites and they seem to agree.

Year One has the 70 & 71 same part number B1370CR without slotted holes.
Year One has the 72 listed alone part number B1372CR with slotted holes.
Year One has the 73 listed alone part number B1373CR with slotted holes and another lower hole.
Year One has no listing for a 74.

Classic Industries has the 70 & 71 same part number MM1019B with no slotted holes.
Classic Industries has the 72 listed alone part number MM1020 with slotted holes.
Classic Industries has the 73 listed alone part number MM1021 with slotted holes and another lower hole.
Classic Industries has the 74 listed alone part number MM1022 with slotted holes and another lower hole.

It would seem that there are different brackets as you cited for the later years. I guess the question remains if you switch to a 70 & 71 bracket from a 73 & 74 bracket to lose the slotted holes the will they bolt up to the body correctly? It seems you say yes.
Title: Re: Rear Bumper Valance hole cover
Post by: 1 Wild R/T on March 02, 2017 - 01:17:00 pm
If you use the 70-72 brackets you can use what they list as a 70-71 bumper or the 72 bumper which is actually mid year 71-72... You will lose all the brittle shrinking plastic filler that hides the gap between the bumper & the body, The early style guards will fit like they should....  There is a metal filler that mounts below the tail lights on 70's but it's missing on a lot of cars & most folks don't even notice...
Title: Re: Rear Bumper Valance hole cover
Post by: YellowThumper on March 15, 2017 - 06:29:34 pm
Do not have absolute info on the earlier years other than I know 74 brackets are different. I have the heavy crash bar addition. Here are some beliefs. If any listing info is incorrect I will edit post.
70-72 bumper physical location remained the same.
73 bumper moved out and the heavy crash bar was added.
74 I believe bumper location remained the same however the rear rubber (knee knocker) increased in size. Been stated that the heavy bar remained the same. So... then my belief is the mount brackets changed into the bent bar design to meet what might have been the requirement that there be no damage at 5mph. They would kind of act like a big spring.

Here is the link to process of conversion on my 74.

http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=106409.75 (http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=106409.75)

Mike
Title: Re: Rear Bumper Valance hole cover
Post by: burdar on March 15, 2017 - 07:06:18 pm
73 also has the thick reinforcements behind the bumpers.

70-72 and 74 Challenger rear brackets look similar. They are thick pieces of steel bent into shape. The 73 Challenger brackets resemble Cuda parts. They are a stamped steel bracket...thinner material.
Title: Re: Rear Bumper Valance hole cover
Post by: YellowThumper on March 15, 2017 - 08:46:07 pm
Thanks. I edited my first post
Title: Re: Rear Bumper Valance hole cover
Post by: chargerdon on March 16, 2017 - 09:07:38 am
Yellow Thumper...    So you made your own brackets to move in closer, and still used your 74 bumper ?

Any chance you know what the difference between the 73 and 74 bumpers actually are??   I have the 74 Challenger, and need new bumpers...   73's from rock auto are way cheaper than classic industries, but, they do not have 74 bumper...   so was thinking of buying the 73..  what would it take to make it work?
Title: Re: Rear Bumper Valance hole cover
Post by: YellowThumper on March 26, 2017 - 11:59:49 pm
Yellow Thumper...    So you made your own brackets to move in closer, and still used your 74 bumper ?

Any chance you know what the difference between the 73 and 74 bumpers actually are??   I have the 74 Challenger, and need new bumpers...   73's from rock auto are way cheaper than classic industries, but, they do not have 74 bumper...   so was thinking of buying the 73..  what would it take to make it work?

Sorry for the late reply. I do not know there is difference between the 73 an 74. I have found thru the years that many times catalogues do not include 74. They only were built car for a couple of months until production stopped. If making your own brackets it will not matter. Outside profiles remained the same. Only mounting locations changed. As for using my existing bumper I did not see a reason not to. Mounting bolt location and jack slots are irrelevant to me. They exist so I keep them. In the future I may hack it up and make it fit cleanly and more uniform. If/when doing that I would fill holes prior to new chrome. I also plan on customizing my lower pan to hide the gap that shows below the bumper.
Title: Re: Rear Bumper Valance hole cover
Post by: chargerdon on April 21, 2017 - 08:30:39 am
Well, I bit the bullet and purchased the 70-72 chrome bumper guards.   

To install I had to drill new holes lower in the bumper and im using just the single bolt to hold it as i didnt have the lower bracket and dont know if it would fit.   But single bolt holds it pretty well, and they look pretty decent.   Even with my 74 brackets the gap is only about 3/4 of an inch and you have to look close to notice.   Ill post a picture later. 

Next decision is whether a 73 bumper face would work to replace my current 74 bumper as its chrome isnt all that good and 73's are available from rockauto for under $200, but they are "out of stock" for 74's.   But that is a ways down the road.
Title: Re: Rear Bumper Valance hole cover
Post by: burdar on April 21, 2017 - 09:16:53 am
I did a Google search and found this picture.  I guess it's somewhere on this site already but I thought I'd add it here.  It shows the difference between the 73 style bracket(top) and the 70-72 and 74 style brackets.

http://i42.tinypic.com/33k9pjt.jpg (http://i42.tinypic.com/33k9pjt.jpg)
Title: Re: Rear Bumper Valance hole cover
Post by: chargerdon on April 21, 2017 - 02:00:34 pm
Ok, here are two pictures... first wide showing the new bumper guards installed from the back, and then a closer shot of one side to really see that there isnt as much gap as i would have thought.   Notice the two bumper bolts directly above the guards...  they are simply fillers as that is where the stock bumper guard would have attached.

Title: Re: Rear Bumper Valance hole cover
Post by: Pale Roader on June 20, 2017 - 04:31:27 am
I did a Google search and found this picture.  I guess it's somewhere on this site already but I thought I'd add it here.  It shows the difference between the 73 style bracket(top) and the 70-72 and 74 style brackets.

[url]http://i42.tinypic.com/33k9pjt.jpg[/url] ([url]http://i42.tinypic.com/33k9pjt.jpg[/url])


You mean the difference between 73 and 74 brackets. I have a 74 that is getting a 70 bumper (that i just happened to have in the shed). The 70-72 bracket is the same material as the later one, but the part that extends the bumper is longer, very visibly longer.

I've decided just to patch that (early style) bumperette hole too... more to save weight if anything. I've deleted the early style bumperettes from my 70 bumper. Saves 4.5lbs!

Burdar, you said you had a pic ov the patched valence?
Title: Re: Rear Bumper Valance hole cover
Post by: burdar on June 20, 2017 - 08:47:42 am
Quote
You mean the difference between 73 and 74 brackets. I have a 74 that is getting a 70 bumper (that i just happened to have in the shed). The 70-72 bracket is the same material as the later one, but the part that extends the bumper is longer, very visibly longer

What I meant to say is that the 70-72 and 74 brackets look the same to the untrained eye.  They are made out of the same material and are bend similarly.  The 73 bracket is totally different.

There are pictures on this site of filled rear valance slots.  I don't have any saved on my computer.  You could probably find some pictures with a Google search.
Title: Re: Rear Bumper Valance hole cover
Post by: chargerdon on June 21, 2017 - 10:26:12 am
At a recent car show, i was parked next to a 73 Challenger with my 74.   The REAR bumpers "looked" identical to the eye, and measured the same width height etc.   Then I measured the bolts, and found about 2 inches DIFFERENT on the inner bolts.   So obviously the brackets are different. 

So, if i decide to spend the money on a new rear bumper, I guess ill have to buy new brackets that match the year of the bumper I buy.   Re-chroming is way too expensive. 
Title: Re: Rear Bumper Valance hole cover
Post by: YellowThumper on June 28, 2017 - 01:50:53 am
Yes, 74s have a heavy crash bar added. I did same thing and made my own brackets.

Check out my link.
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=106409.75 (http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=106409.75)