Author Topic: Ignition switch only works when turning key back  (Read 521 times)

Offline w100ewd

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Ignition switch only works when turning key back
« on: July 05, 2021 - 04:01:26 PM »
I have something very strange going on with a brand new ignition switch. I replaced the old ignition with a new one based on Cuda Cody's video of converting a steering column.

When I turn the key it does engage the starter, however it does not send a signal to the coil. A signal is only send to the coil after you stop cranking the key and let off the key a little bit to turn it back to the on position. That's when a signal goes to the coil and the car tries to start. After the car runs for a while, it then becomes very difficult to get the car to start cranking. I put a new electronic distributor in the car, as well as a new ignition. It's a brand new motor rebuild that's running great, I just am having trouble getting it started.

The Auto Parts Shop is the company I bought the ignition switch from and I cannot get anyone at their company to answer me. Some of the worst customer service I've ever had. Here is a link to the ignition switch: https://www.theautopartsshop.com/sku/Standard+Ignition/US-88/SIUS-88-Ignition_Switch

Has anyone encountered this? Thoughts on what to do? I'm considering ordering a new ignition switch and taking the column apart again. Before I do that, I hope to exhaust all other options.





Offline 70chall440

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Re: Ignition switch only works when turning key back
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2021 - 12:51:49 AM »
So what is the status of the wiring coming out of the column? Is the switch the only thing you messed with? Sounds to me like one of the wires going to the switch is not connected or not making contact.
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline w100ewd

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Re: Ignition switch only works when turning key back
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2021 - 07:24:40 PM »
The wiring out of the column is brand new and the plastic coupler it hooks to is the exact same as when the old column was in the car. It does seem like a connection point, except for the fact the signal is sent once the key turns to the run position rather than cranking. I'm not sure how to test if this is a bad ignition switch or if this is the wiring after the column... Any help is gladly welcomed.

Offline 70chall440

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Re: Ignition switch only works when turning key back
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2021 - 10:37:22 PM »
Sounds to me like the switch itself at this point
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline w100ewd

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Re: Ignition switch only works when turning key back
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2021 - 06:35:43 PM »
I changed out the ignition switch today and...... The problem continues.

I put a new electronic distributor in when I rebuilt the motor last fall. Maybe I need to be tracking down wires and testing voltage? I'm open to any suggestions.

Offline 70chall440

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Re: Ignition switch only works when turning key back
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2021 - 12:17:32 AM »
Well if it is not the switch, then you have something wired backwards or a wire where it should not be. Get a copy of the wiring diagram and trace your wiring. The starting circuit is not the complicated so you should only have to trace a couple of wires.
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline JayBee

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Re: Ignition switch only works when turning key back
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2021 - 07:54:44 AM »
Here's a whole slew of wiring diagrams that might help - and they're in color.

https://forum.e-bodies.org/electrical-and-audio/11/colored-wiring-diagrams-70-cudachallenger/1349/
John

1970 Barracuda convertible
2000 Toyota Avalon

Offline 'Cuda Hunter

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Re: Ignition switch only works when turning key back
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2021 - 08:51:28 PM »
I have a ramcharger 440 that will crank and crank and then right as I let off the forward sprung key it starts.  Always when I am releasing the key.  I too, would like to know what you find. 

For some reason in my mind, I recall many years ago having this problem and it was because the starter needed to be shimmed out with 3 shims.   I'm not sure why that would work or why that is in my memory.  Someone tell me that ridiculous please. 

"All riches begin as a state of mind and you have complete control of your mind"  -- B. Lee

Offline 70chall440

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Re: Ignition switch only works when turning key back
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2021 - 09:56:03 PM »
I do not believe shimming the starter has any effect on this situation. Basically the coil is not getting power during the cranking action which it why it is not starting (IMO). In the case where it fires just as you begin to let off the key this is normally a worn switch/tumbler situation where the contacts are just off enough so no power to the coil during cranking (but it is sucking in air and fuel) but as you let off that tiny amount it makes contact which supplies power to the coil which lights the fire.
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline 'Cuda Hunter

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Re: Ignition switch only works when turning key back
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2021 - 10:48:29 PM »
makes sense. 
"All riches begin as a state of mind and you have complete control of your mind"  -- B. Lee

Offline w100ewd

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Re: Ignition switch only works when turning key back
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2021 - 11:18:20 PM »
I do not believe shimming the starter has any effect on this situation. Basically the coil is not getting power during the cranking action which it why it is not starting (IMO). In the case where it fires just as you begin to let off the key this is normally a worn switch/tumbler situation where the contacts are just off enough so no power to the coil during cranking (but it is sucking in air and fuel) but as you let off that tiny amount it makes contact which supplies power to the coil which lights the fire.

The tumbler is brand new. In fact, I have replaced it twice with new tumblers and the issue remains. I have a shop that said they are going to look at it next week. I've had a bunch of people look at the issue, I've tracked down wires, and I'm totally lost on how to fix this.

Offline 70chall440

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Re: Ignition switch only works when turning key back
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2021 - 12:48:43 PM »
Hopefully your "guys" know what they are doing. If you think about how the starting system works, when you turn the key to "start" (all the way so that the starter is turning) there has to be power to both the starter and to the ignition system (coil) in the proper amounts. When you let off the key (presumably when the engine fires) power is cut off to the starter but remains to the ignition system. Since your car is starting when you let off the key, it is not getting power to the ignition system when the starter is turning but since in trying to start the car the cylinders are not populated with air/fuel when you let off the key and power is supplied to the ignition system, the spark plugs fire thus starting the car.

So, the synopsis is that you do not have power going to the ignition system during starting which means that either the switch itself is not working correctly, your wiring is misconnected/wrong or the ballast resistor is bad. Since the BR is the easiest to change/get to I'd start there. 
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline rockymopar

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Re: Ignition switch only works when turning key back
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2021 - 02:30:36 PM »
New to the conversation, there is a start/run circuit for the ignition. It sounds like the start circuit is not applying power to the coil. The start circuit bypasses the ballast to give full power to the coil when cranking. Ballast only powers coil in run. I put in a new (china) switch, had the same issue. I had to add a relay, with the coil paralleled from the starter solenoid coil and the contact applying +12 to the coil. Test this by jumpering from the batt+ to the + coil and try to start

Offline chargerdon

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Re: Ignition switch only works when turning key back
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2021 - 09:37:52 AM »
First question.   points and condenser or electronic ignition?  If it is a two wire ballast then points/condenser system if 4 post then electronic ignition.    There are TWO separate paths the key provides...  One for "run" and one for "start" plus start has the additional lead to the starter relay to engage the starter.   That obviously works, and so does "run".   

During "start" power is supposed to go to the ballast resistor which then feeds the Coil directly (for hotter spark during starting ) AND thru the ballast resistor to the junction that feeds the Voltage regulator, the electric choke, AND the ECU on electronic systems.   If that circuit is open or LOW on voltage you will not get a spark!!   Path for the Start circuit is from key, thru connector on steering column, thru the firewall connector (pin 22) then to the ballast resistor (same post on ballast that has the brown wire that goes to the coil).   Test using a multimeter on voltage at that post while having a buddy turn the key to start.   If NO voltage then broken wire or loose connection along that path.   If it has voltage but not at least 10+ volts then again problem in that circuit!!   If voltage much less than that, and is electronic ignition, then the voltage on other end of the ballast which feeds all the system will be below 6 volts and the ECU will NOT function and the coil will not fire.   You can check that voltage with a muli-meter on the other end of the ballast while cranking.       

PS...that circuit needs to have strong connections because when the power runs that direction thru the ballast resistor it drops the voltage by about 40% before it gets thru to the ecu.   On RUN the power to the ECU does not go thru the ballast and thus can be weaker.   

Hope you have already solved the problem, or this helps !