Author Topic: 440+ 6 Temperature spike when stopped...even for a short time.  (Read 2494 times)

Offline Travis Blake

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Hi guys,

Whelp, now that the valve cover oil leak is fixed, it's on to the next problem. The temperature. Running a 440 + 6, bored .60 over, 9.7-1 compression, stock manifolds and .488 cam, timing is 13  36, high flow water pump. I was running a 195 stat, but just switched to a high volume 180 stat and new aluminum radiator today to try to fix the heat, but shes still getting hot. All bolt on parts are new within the last 12 months.

The radiator is running very cool. When parked, I shot it with the gun, and it was 140! But when I shoot the water pump housing/thermostat, its 190-195 when running and idling, and it just keeps going up and up from there when its just idling. I know some temperature creep is normal, but this happens almost instantaneously everytime, even when it's 75 degrees.

My thought is that it may be running lean. The reason I say that is twofold. First, is when it sits and idles for a 5(ish) minutes, and I pull it into gear it stalls outand its takes a couple of minutes to get it going again(possibly vapor locked?) Ill drive it down the road a mile or so, stop at a stop sign, and it sits there and idles in gear as nice as can be. It never stalls out when its cold by the way. So it seems a bit fuel starved. The next reason is that a richer mix runs cooler from what Ive been told.

SO, my questions are as follows, as Ive never dealt with adjusting richness on a six pack, or even a four barrel for that matter. Is it JUST the center carb screw (circled in blue in the attached image), or do I need to adjust all three. Secondly, when looking at the screw is it a right, or left turn to richen it up?

I figured Id start there, as its the path of least resistance. Thoughts? 
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017 - 03:57:42 pm by Travis Blake »
1974 Dodge Challenger  - 440 Six Pack
2015 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited - Willy's Edition




Offline cudabob496

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72 Cuda, owned 25 years. 496, with ported Stage VI heads, .625 in solid roller, 254/258 at .050, 3500 stall, 3.91 rear. 850 Holley DP, Reverse manual valve body.

1999 Trans Am, LS1, heads, cam, headers, stall, etc! Love to surprise the rice rockets with this one. They seem so confident, then it's "what the heck just happened?"

Offline Travis Blake

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Re: 440+ 6 Temperature spike when stopped...even for a short time.
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2017 - 05:10:06 pm »
Seems like this is most applicable to me...I'm assuming that these ratios (1/8 turn, 1 turn) counter clockwise are from a starting point of being closed by turning clockwise to close.

Typically if you have the center carb idle mixture screws between 1 to 2 turns ccw and the idle mixture/rpm properly set you may not have to adjust the outboard idle mixture any further. 
 
If you are 2 turns out on the ctr carb idle mixture screws and the idle is still too lean - the outboards need to contribute more fuel to the idle. Open the idle mixture screws on the outboard carbs another 1/8 turn ccw. Now they will be out a total of of a turn ccw. Now go back and reset the idle mixture and rpm.
If you need richen the idle mixture-set the idle mix to 1.0 turns out ccw


I hear what he says about the 195 stat, but this problem, both heat and stalling after standing for 5 + minutes was happening with the 195 too.

« Last Edit: June 20, 2017 - 05:28:26 pm by Travis Blake »
1974 Dodge Challenger  - 440 Six Pack
2015 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited - Willy's Edition


Offline Travis Blake

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Re: 440+ 6 Temperature spike when stopped...even for a short time.
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2017 - 08:03:04 pm »
Another question is COULD the torque converter have anything to do with increasing heat? It's a 2200 stall converter...I can't think that it would, but I just want to throw it out there.
1974 Dodge Challenger  - 440 Six Pack
2015 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited - Willy's Edition

Offline 734406pk

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Re: 440+ 6 Temperature spike when stopped...even for a short time.
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2017 - 08:54:23 pm »
It's not likely the torque converter has anything to do with this issue. Are you running with a thermo-clutch fan by chance?
1973 Challenger 440 6 pack auto 3.91 rear
2012 Dodge Ram 3500 dually 6.7 Cummins Fleece EFI Live
1973 Challenger 318 2bbl auto 2.73 rear 22.5 mpg RIP
1970 Challenger TA 340 4bbl auto-Sold and sad
1999 Dodge Ram 3500 dually 5.9 Cummins Fleece tuned VGT-sold
1995 Kawasaki ZX1100E & still alive

Offline msbaugh

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Re: 440+ 6 Temperature spike when stopped...even for a short time.
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2017 - 08:59:33 pm »
Also what are your waterpump and crank pulley diameters? The underdriven kits will really not cool well at idle

Offline Travis Blake

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Re: 440+ 6 Temperature spike when stopped...even for a short time.
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2017 - 09:00:40 pm »
It's not likely the torque converter has anything to do with this issue. Are you running with a thermo-clutch fan by chance?

Yes on the thermo clutch fan. One important point to note, is that the radiator was 140 when I shot it with the thermo, so there does not appear to be any issue with the radiator cooling. Also, I have an electric aux fan on the front and the heat occurs with both of them running. You may have been leading up to something else, but I just wanted to touch on that.

The fan sits approx 1" off the radiator.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017 - 09:11:51 pm by Travis Blake »
1974 Dodge Challenger  - 440 Six Pack
2015 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited - Willy's Edition

Offline Travis Blake

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Re: 440+ 6 Temperature spike when stopped...even for a short time.
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2017 - 09:09:33 pm »
Also what are your waterpump and crank pulley diameters? The underdriven kits will really not cool well at idle

Great question, The pulley is 6 13/16 diameter.

 And this is the FlowKooler pump: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/bra-1679

The water pump housing is stock cast iron.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017 - 09:11:17 pm by Travis Blake »
1974 Dodge Challenger  - 440 Six Pack
2015 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited - Willy's Edition

Offline 734406pk

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Re: 440+ 6 Temperature spike when stopped...even for a short time.
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2017 - 09:19:18 pm »
Do you have a fan shroud with the aluminum radiator?
1973 Challenger 440 6 pack auto 3.91 rear
2012 Dodge Ram 3500 dually 6.7 Cummins Fleece EFI Live
1973 Challenger 318 2bbl auto 2.73 rear 22.5 mpg RIP
1970 Challenger TA 340 4bbl auto-Sold and sad
1999 Dodge Ram 3500 dually 5.9 Cummins Fleece tuned VGT-sold
1995 Kawasaki ZX1100E & still alive

Offline Travis Blake

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Re: 440+ 6 Temperature spike when stopped...even for a short time.
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2017 - 09:23:30 pm »
Do you have a fan shroud with the aluminum radiator?
Yes I do.
1974 Dodge Challenger  - 440 Six Pack
2015 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited - Willy's Edition

Offline cudabob496

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Re: 440+ 6 Temperature spike when stopped...even for a short time.
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2017 - 09:29:52 pm »
radiator looks quite small??
is fan blade 1/2 inch from radiator, and half way into shroud?
Do you have a recovery bottle so radiator is always completely filled?
72 Cuda, owned 25 years. 496, with ported Stage VI heads, .625 in solid roller, 254/258 at .050, 3500 stall, 3.91 rear. 850 Holley DP, Reverse manual valve body.

1999 Trans Am, LS1, heads, cam, headers, stall, etc! Love to surprise the rice rockets with this one. They seem so confident, then it's "what the heck just happened?"

Offline Travis Blake

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Re: 440+ 6 Temperature spike when stopped...even for a short time.
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2017 - 09:38:30 pm »
radiator looks quite small??
is fan blade 1/2 inch from radiator, and half way into shroud?
Do you have a recovery bottle so radiator is always completely filled?


Might just be the angle of the pic, it's a 26" radiator. Yes on the overflow bottle.

It's the eBody version of this: http://www.classicindustries.com/product/1969/dodge/charger/parts/mp61002a.html

Thoughts on running water wetter?

1974 Dodge Challenger  - 440 Six Pack
2015 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited - Willy's Edition

Offline jhaag

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Re: 440+ 6 Temperature spike when stopped...even for a short time.
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2017 - 09:48:59 pm »
The screw you have circled is to adjust the float level not idle mixture. It is a sight hole into the bowl to see the float level. Mixture screws are accessible on center carb only and they are in the front of the base plate. A little hard to get to.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017 - 09:51:36 pm by jhaag »
love 70 Challengers

Offline Travis Blake

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Re: 440+ 6 Temperature spike when stopped...even for a short time.
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2017 - 09:54:57 pm »
The screw you have circled is to adjust the float level not idle mixture. It is a sight hole into the bowl to see the float level. Mixture screws are accessible on center carb only and they are in the front of the base plate. A little hard to get to.

OK good to know. I just looked and I don't see anything in the baseplate....is it the screw below the 3 in the picture attached by chance? If not, any chance you can add a photo, or point me to one online?
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017 - 10:08:24 pm by Travis Blake »
1974 Dodge Challenger  - 440 Six Pack
2015 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited - Willy's Edition

Offline jimynick

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Re: 440+ 6 Temperature spike when stopped...even for a short time.
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2017 - 10:13:18 pm »
Too rich can also cause late burning in the exhaust which can also cause heating. I'd pull the sight plugs (one at a time) and the fuel, at idle, should just come to the edge of it's opening. If it runs out, the floats likely need to be adjusted downward to correct that. That may be why it's hard to start when hot- it's piddling into the intake flooding it. The fact that it runs at 195 seems to indicate the "stat" is doing it's job, but it's also not unknown for a stat to not open completely and the only way to tell is to put it in water and heat it to it's rated temp and observe it. If the coolant is circulating well I'd then try putting a good sized fan in front of it and see if that brings it down. That'd give you an idea whether the fan is operating properly even though it appears to be so. Fan belts tight and not glazed? Just a couple of thoughts here.  :cheers: