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Chryco's Tech Shop => Engine & Go Fast Goodies => Topic started by: 72hemi on April 20, 2009 - 08:21:42 pm

Title: 318 advice
Post by: 72hemi on April 20, 2009 - 08:21:42 pm
I have a 71 318 that I am giving to a friend for his barracuda and was wondering what thoughts people have on a nice build. He is trying to build this on a tight budget. Should he replace the heads with some 360 heads, what kind of hydraulic cam, and would an RPM air gap with a 650 carb be a good way to top it off or something else. He isn't looking to make huge power, just something better than his stock 273 2 barrel.
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: 71chally416 on April 20, 2009 - 08:27:55 pm
http://www.hotrod.com/howto/113_0304_318_small_block_build/index.html
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: 72hemi on April 20, 2009 - 08:53:18 pm
That's perfect! Thanks.  :2thumbs:
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: GoodysGotaCuda on April 20, 2009 - 09:08:55 pm
milled 360 heads, performer rpm intake, 650 avs and headers moves my full weight ebody at 13.6. With way too tall 30.5" tires
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: 72hemi on April 20, 2009 - 10:03:43 pm
which 360 heads?
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: GoodysGotaCuda on April 20, 2009 - 10:45:05 pm
which 360 heads?

2.02 j-heads, i should mention it was accompanied by a 3500 stall and 3.91s as well
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: 72hemi on April 20, 2009 - 10:47:15 pm
cool thanks.
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: 71chally416 on April 20, 2009 - 10:50:21 pm
Might wanna check this out too.

http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=46967.0
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: 72hemi on April 20, 2009 - 10:54:52 pm
Cool thanks.
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: Chryco Psycho on April 20, 2009 - 10:58:21 pm
I would use a set of the newer 308 castings ported & a smaller Engle or Lunati VooDoo cam
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: GoodysGotaCuda on April 20, 2009 - 11:43:37 pm
I would use a set of the newer 308 castings ported & a smaller Engle or Lunati VooDoo cam

As long as the 308s aren't cracked between the valves, or magnum heads would be my route if i did it again. Somewhere in the neighborhood of .510 lift as well.
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: Chryco Psycho on April 21, 2009 - 11:52:27 am
cracks between the seats are easily fixed
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: femtnmax on April 23, 2009 - 10:42:50 pm
I would use a set of the newer 308 castings ported & a smaller Engle or Lunati VooDoo cam
Sent you a PM on cam.
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: GoodysGotaCuda on April 23, 2009 - 11:02:46 pm
cracks between the seats are easily fixed

True. Doesn't usually make it cheap though. Basic work on mine, I believe it was around $600 to get my 360 heads milled, new valves, seals, valve job and hot tanking. I much rather look at it at 50% off edelbrock heads with how much i could have dumped into stock heads. Wish i went that route...Would have been well worth the $$, and i got the 360 heads free.
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: Chryco Psycho on April 25, 2009 - 04:39:28 am
Sent you a PM on cam.

 Something in the K54/K56 Engle range would be great for a warmed up 318
 maybe I missed the PM ???
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: moper on April 25, 2009 - 11:24:23 am
Mild? Everquest Magnums, KB hyper pistons, a mild cam (like the XE262H Comp) and I wouldnt go RPM. A simple 318/360 Performer is what I'd go with. I cant see a build like that going more than $3500.
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: 72hemi on April 25, 2009 - 11:51:35 am
Thanks everyone for the advice.
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: Glennster on June 24, 2009 - 05:07:30 pm
I go back and forth like a ping pong ball on this.... Do I warm up the original 318, to where I'm close to 400 HP, or do I just go out and buy a 360 crate motor?
 Here's what I keep coming back to, darn few people will give you 1 extra $ for a hot 318. There are some folks that would give you a few bucks for a 360 crate motor (with some documentation).
  By the time you warm up the 318, you could probably have a crate 360. And, you now have two motors......
 For some goofy reason, I'd kind of like to keep my little 318, get it to 375-400 HP and quiet those who talk down the 318. You'll notice that I never said I was smart, but I have been accused of being hard headed and strange...............
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: 72hemi on June 24, 2009 - 05:23:33 pm
While your point is well taken I doubt the car that this engine is going into will ever be sold. Plus the budget that we are trying to work with is a fraction of the cost of a new crate engine, and I have the 318 laying around.
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: Glennster on June 24, 2009 - 05:56:45 pm
This is one of those deals where there is no wrong answer. It's a little like picking a color, it's a personal preference thing. I really would like to have a hot 318.........
Good luck with you Hot Rod, sounds like it's going to be a very sweet build!
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: smallblock on June 27, 2009 - 03:03:30 am
I warmed my 318 up a little with a set of 302 casting closed chambered swirl port heads. These are great. They flow good and up the compression being closed chambered heads. I put in a mild cam, X-cellerator intake and holley 600, should have used a 650 but it makes for a nice little motor. No racer by any means but 318's are great motors, They make decent power and hold up great.
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: Challenger6pak on July 07, 2009 - 05:49:59 pm
If your 273 is a 64-67, and it has the original crank, it is a forged crank. 64-71 273/318 use the same rods.  This means you can use the forged crank in the 71 318 w/o having to rebalance it. If you have the 72-73 318 rods you have to use a 340 forged crank to avoid rebalancing. Here are a couple of charts so you can be sure of what parts you have.
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: dodge freak 2 on August 20, 2009 - 08:09:47 pm
I have a hot little 318. Has 360 heads, 2.02 intake valves, etc etc.

But if it was a 360 built right-that could rev to 6500 everyday like my 318 does, the 360 motor would make even more power.

Your right, costs are about the same.

Why a crate motor, you trust those ? I hear some negative feedback on all factor crate motors.

Then again, not all engine shops do great work. If you can find a shop to do the job right, it be stronger than a crate motor. Be surprise how time flies...I had a shop rebuild my 318 back in 2001. All I have done is swap cylinder heads and camshaft..oh yeah, intake swaps.

Oil pan never been off and again it sees 6500 rpms everyday.
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: PlumCrazyChris on September 30, 2009 - 11:45:39 am
This thread will give you more information then you ever wanted to know about building a smallblock.   

Its intended to make max gas mileage, but efficiency is power.   check it out, Great tech info.

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=best&Number=3944014&page=0&fpart=all

Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: cudazappa on October 08, 2009 - 06:10:53 pm
hope no one minds me jumping on board with a question... (it has been stickied, right?)

Ok, my 71 Challenger has a rebuilt 318 in it. Stock pistons and rods and crank...

so I'm looking to turn up the wick a li'l for next year.
I have a 670 holley avenger
LD340 intake
and 273 heads with larger valves installed (I have to check on this, crossing fingers that I just didn't jinx it)
I'm going to run headers and dual exhaust.
What Cam should I run?
I was thinking a 340 auto resto-grind cam. Any other suggestions?

btw: auto, 3.23 gears, stock challenger for rest of setup... Just looking for some good seat of pants action this next year while I prep up for a better 318 the year after (yes I'm crazy...)
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: 71chally416 on October 10, 2009 - 02:41:07 am
The 280/474 lift factory cam works well in a mild 318, even with below 8 to 1 compression with a stock convertor. I have some 12.70/109mph time cards that prove it. Has a nice lumpy idle too. I also used the LD340 Intake .  :2thumbs:
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: cudazappa on October 10, 2009 - 09:24:11 am
what did you use for heads?
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: 71chally416 on October 10, 2009 - 09:51:26 am
The whole build is here>

http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=46967.0
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: PlumCrazyChris on October 14, 2009 - 10:24:20 am
273 heads with larger valves installed (I have to check on this, crossing fingers that I just didn't jinx it)

I heard that 273 heads don't flow very well unless they are ported...?  Anyone know for sure?

It seems everyone these days, in all the smallblock building competitions, are using magnum heads.  They are quite good stock they say, and awesome (supporting 500+ HP) when ported.   Someone, I can't remember now, is making replacement magnum heads (aluminum?) pretty cheap.  They don't leak either, which is a big plus in my book. 

You obviously have the 273 heads already and are going to use them, but maybe for the next build... 

BTW, RHS is selling rebuilt LA and magnum heads with big valves for ~ $500 a set.
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: Aussie Challenger on October 21, 2009 - 05:55:50 am
 
If your 273 is a 64-67, and it has the original crank, it is a forged crank. 64-71 273/318 use the same rods.  This means you can use the forged crank in the 71 318 w/o having to rebalance it. If you have the 72-73 318 rods you have to use a 340 forged crank to avoid rebalancing. 
  You will however have to make sure that the 318 pistons are the same weight as the 273 or balancing is required.   :bigsmile:
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: wagesofsin on November 13, 2009 - 06:00:02 pm
Ask thecudaguy! He is the best 318 guy on here  :2cents:



 :roflsmiley:
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: brads70 on November 19, 2009 - 06:52:10 pm
 :iagree: Ya maybe Don will sell you the cam out of his! :smilielol: :stirpot: :poopoke:
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: mopar12372 on February 06, 2010 - 02:03:38 am
This is one of those deals where there is no wrong answer. It's a little like picking a color, it's a personal preference thing. I really would like to have a hot 318.........
Good luck with you Hot Rod, sounds like it's going to be a very sweet build!
360 crate engines are JUNK! GOTO mrl.com
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: nqkjw on April 26, 2010 - 10:14:02 am
I've just pieced together a budget 318 out of spare bits I had lying around and bits I picked up cheap.
Cam is Crane H-278-2 with rollmaster gear set at 2deg adv and comp lifters.
Intake is edelbrock performer topped with edelbrock 1404 500cfm performer 4bbl.
heads are 318s mildly ported and milled to give a true 9.8:1
Exhaust is a set of Patriot 1 5/8 primary pipes into twin 2.5" press bent system.
HEI dizzy.
Not up and running yet but i'm hoping for around 280fwhp.
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: 73restomod on August 02, 2010 - 12:34:25 pm
I have a 87 W150 with a "mild" 318. I used #302 heads. Had 1.88/1.60 valves installed, I did the bowl blend, and gasket match my self. The block was bored 30, and filled with KB pistons. I used a comp XE262H grind with 340 springs and some proform 1.5 roller rockers. Edlebrock performer intake that I also gasket matched (heads and intake 4 barrel sizes), with headers and Ede 600 cfm AVS. The truck was an auto that I converted to a NV 4500 5speed, and It will bounce your head of the back glass on 2-3 shift with 33x12.5 inch tires !   :jumping:
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: Road_Runner on September 05, 2010 - 09:54:27 pm
I have a 87 W150 with a "mild" 318. I used #302 heads. Had 1.88/1.60 valves installed, I did the bowl blend, and gasket match my self. The block was bored 30, and filled with KB pistons. I used a comp XE262H grind with 340 springs and some proform 1.5 roller rockers. Edlebrock performer intake that I also gasket matched (heads and intake 4 barrel sizes), with headers and Ede 600 cfm AVS. The truck was an auto that I converted to a NV 4500 5speed, and It will bounce your head of the back glass on 2-3 shift with 33x12.5 inch tires !   :jumping:

Your build sounds very similar to what I'm considering if I decide to stay with the 318 in my 73.  Already have a set of 302 heads and LD340 intake.  Only difference is I was thinking 650 on the carb and have a set of hipo exhaust manifolds out of a 70 340 car.  That or build a 340 for it and just keep the 318 stock in the corner of the garage.  Decisions, decisions.... 

Later, Jim
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: merlin969 on May 22, 2011 - 11:51:54 am
Not sure if anyone posted this link but its pretty good also. 
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/4bbl.html (http://www.allpar.com/mopar/4bbl.html)
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: SBDave on February 22, 2013 - 08:22:59 pm
http://santabarbara.craigslist.org/pts/3594242316.html (http://santabarbara.craigslist.org/pts/3594242316.html)

Continuing the 318 discussion.  I have a 73 cuda with a stock 2 barrel 318, 904 trans and 3.55 trutrac.  The car has dual flowmasters for exhaust and everyone that hears it says it has a little cam although I have not opened the engine to find out what it has.  Eventually I will build a new engine for it but I'd like to bump up performance on the 318 for now with just bolt on's. 

I found this intake and carb for sale locally.  Would this fit?  Would it be worth it?
thanks,
Dave
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: Road_Runner on February 22, 2013 - 09:16:58 pm
[url]http://santabarbara.craigslist.org/pts/3594242316.html[/url] ([url]http://santabarbara.craigslist.org/pts/3594242316.html[/url])

Continuing the 318 discussion.  I have a 73 cuda with a stock 2 barrel 318, 904 trans and 3.55 trutrac.  The car has dual flowmasters for exhaust and everyone that hears it says it has a little cam although I have not opened the engine to find out what it has.  Eventually I will build a new engine for it but I'd like to bump up performance on the 318 for now with just bolt on's. 

I found this intake and carb for sale locally.  Would this fit?  Would it be worth it?
thanks,
Dave


It would fit, but wouldn't be my first choice.  For one thing that manifold has larger ports than your 318 heads, but will work OK.  As an economical choice it wouldn't be terrible assuming you can just put a kit in the TQ and make it work, but more than likely that is going to be a little too much carb for a stockish 318.  First choice for a manifold would be an Edelbrock LD4B if you can find one they usually go for around $125-150 or so.  A little less would be a used Edelbrok Performer which I've seen go for around $100.  Carbs are harder to get one used that are truly bolt-on ready so I'd go new or rebuilt.  New Edelbrock Carbs in the 600-650 cfm range can be had for $250 or so with manual choke, maybe around $300 for electric.  Other than jet changes you wouldn't be looking at having to rebuild it, etc.  So any of these combinations would be a lot more than your $160 option, but would be ready to go compared to your unknown used TQ.  If you're OK with rebuilding the carb and need to keep the price around $200 including rebuild kit, go for it.  If you have more $$ and want something more ready to go out of the box, keep looking.  Don't forget kickdown linkage (if yours is an automatic) have to be tweaked or changed out for a higher intake.

Later, Jim
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: CUDA8U on April 24, 2013 - 12:26:06 am
Something in the K54/K56 Engle range would be great for a warmed up 318
 maybe I missed the PM ???

HOOK UP NITROUS TIL SHE BLOWS THEN DROP ANOTHER 318 IN ,THEY ARE CHEAP TO BUY :bananasmi
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: Challenger6pak on April 27, 2013 - 10:09:01 pm
HOOK UP NITROUS TIL SHE BLOWS THEN DROP ANOTHER 318 IN ,THEY ARE CHEAP TO BUY :bananasmi
I was known in my area in the 80's for doing just that.  I would run  a few mods on the motors along with a 400 hp nitrous kit.  I never had a bottom end go out.  I would loose a piston normally.  I broke two camshafts in motors.  It is amazing what the 318 will handle a 1/4 mile at a time. 
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: cbrxxtreme on December 06, 2013 - 08:29:23 pm
I Put a 650 cfm Edlebrock new in box off ebay for cheap on dads 1970 318. with an Edlebrock intake I bought for $20 from a friend. Dad said it never ran so good, even from new when he bought it. Has quite a bore job (not sure if it is .40, .68. Or .80 seeemed like a lot when I picked up the motor in 1995. This last summer I replaced the junk home made exhuast with a huge kink oved the oil filter with a set of Headman headers for about $160. It did have decked heads as well, and I think a mild cam. It has a 3 speed manual geared very low, and will consistantly chirp the tires at 60mph going from 2nd to 3rd gear at 5500 rpms. Car is my daily driver in the summer, and has many trips to 6k since the rebuild in 1995,and uses no oil between changes. Hope this helps, been told the old ones made more power, but I don't know for sure?
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: Dgoode87 on January 11, 2015 - 01:48:59 pm
just my two cents but the magnum heads breath better the the L.A stock heads and you could just a pair pretty cheap only ting is you have to run a magnum intake as well you can still be carbed and all that
Title: Re: 318 advice
Post by: AussieMark on January 14, 2015 - 10:53:08 pm
this thread is old that 318 is probably land fill or boat anchor by now.