Desperately Need Electrical Help-Revived

Author Topic: Desperately Need Electrical Help-Revived  (Read 4117 times)

Offline challenger72rt

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Desperately Need Electrical Help-Revived
« on: November 01, 2005 - 08:30:26 AM »
I recently swapped out my carb and intake.  The car ran fine before the swap, but after the lift off/ drop down install of the intake, the Chally won't start! 

It'll turn over, but it won't catch.  I have tried many adjustments on the carb, thinking this was the problem, with no luck.  When I pull a plug and ground it, I don't see spark.  The starter, coil and wires are new last year, and all worked fine before the swap. 

Any thoughts? 
« Last Edit: November 08, 2005 - 10:37:43 PM by challenger72rt »
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Re: Desperately Need Electrical Help
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2005 - 08:41:04 AM »
Is it a small block or big block? If it is a small block and you removed the distributor, there is a chance that it was re-installed 180 degrees out.  If that is the case, just remove the distributor and turn the bottom of the distributor 180 degrees and make sure the slot lines up with the oil pump gear.  if this is the problem, this will take care of it.

Offline GoodysGotaCuda

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Re: Desperately Need Electrical Help
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2005 - 09:46:29 AM »
Is it a small block or big block? If it is a small block and you removed the distributor, there is a chance that it was re-installed 180 degrees out.  If that is the case, just remove the distributor and turn the bottom of the distributor 180 degrees and make sure the slot lines up with the oil pump gear.  if this is the problem, this will take care of it.

I agree on that, recheck the firing order, maybe the ballist resistor/ecu or somethin got unhooked....good luck
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Offline MEK-Dangerfield

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Re: Desperately Need Electrical Help
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2005 - 10:13:21 AM »
Turn the key to the "on" position. You should have around 10 volts or so on the "+" side of the coil. If so, then it could be the distributor in backwards, but I think your plugs wires would still have spark... just at the wrong times. Did you plug the two wire plug back into the distributor for the pick-up coil?

  Mike

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Offline challenger72rt

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Re: Desperately Need Electrical Help
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2005 - 12:38:50 PM »
oops!  Should have mentioned..it's a 440, so the distributor wasn't touched.

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Offline MEK-Dangerfield

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Re: Desperately Need Electrical Help
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2005 - 04:03:11 PM »
oops!  Should have mentioned..it's a 440, so the distributor wasn't touched.



OK,
  Do you have a volt meter to see what is on the "+" side of the coil when the key is in the "on" position? If you can tell me what you have there, then I can lead you forward, or backward thru the system to find the problem. If you happen to have starting fluid and use that with no luck, then I would suspect spark too.

  Mike

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Offline dix

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Re: Desperately Need Electrical Help
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2005 - 06:25:59 PM »
DOES THIS HAVE ELECTRONIC DIST ????.DIX

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Desperately Need Electrical Help
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2005 - 12:13:45 AM »
if you are not getting a spark the ign is the problem, dist postion makes no difference until you have spark

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Offline challenger72rt

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Re: Desperately Need Electrical Help-Revived
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2005 - 10:42:22 PM »
ok, my brother-in-law came over and we tested the ignition system.

With the key in the 'on' position, we get 12 volts at the battery (trunk mounted), 9 volts at the alternator, and 3.8 volts at the + of the coil.

No spark on the plugs

Firing order is correct, coil, plugs and wires are new

Getting power through the ballast

440, electronic ignition, distributor is good

Any thoughts where to start looking?

as always, appreciate anything that can be offered, even as a starting point
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Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Desperately Need Electrical Help-Revived
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2005 - 12:28:18 AM »
make sure the wire from the ballast is hooked to tthe + terminal on the coil

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Offline MEK-Dangerfield

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Re: Desperately Need Electrical Help-Revived
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2005 - 03:47:57 AM »
If what Chryco said doesn't cure the problem, then it looks like it's either your coil, or ignition box is giving you the trouble. 3.8 volts is about half of what you should have on the "+" side of the coil. The coil can be checked with an ohm meter. Usually there is a short in the secondaries somewhere when they fail. I believe you should measure somewhere in the 10-12,000 ohm range when you measure between the "+", and "-" side of the coil. Make sure one of the terminals has all wires disconnected from it when you do the measuring. If that looks good, then I would look at the ignition box. With the key in the "on" position, take the black connector off of the ignition box. On one of the wires running to that connector, you should measure 12 volts. If so, then the ignition box is getting power, and has an internal problem somewhere. Also be sure the ignition box has a good connection to ground. Sorry to ramble on... Good luck with it.

  Mike

Ugh. I had another thought. Before you check into the coil or ignition box, measure the voltage on both sides of the ballast resistor. It could be possible that the resistor is opening up some and has a value larger than it should be now. I had that problem once upon a time. For my sanitie's sake, could you take the resistance measurement of the ballast resistor for me too?
« Last Edit: November 09, 2005 - 10:00:00 AM by MEKrunner »

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Offline tboicey

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Re: Desperately Need Electrical Help-Revived
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2005 - 01:27:31 PM »
Hello, brother in law here to add to the story.

I suspect something is wrong in the electrical system that is causing the voltage loss, and that in turn is stopping the ignition from generating spark. Although it's possible the voltage has been low for a while, and it still used to work anyways, and a new problem has appeared.

The voltage on the ballast even with one end unclipped is still only around 9V. Again, even right on the alternator lug, it's still just 9V, even though it's a healthy 12V in the truck at the battery.

So with the key off, the voltage at the alternator lug is healthy, but with the key on, something somewhere is consuming enough power (and likely through a bad connection) to drop 3V.

The circuit from the trunk to the test points is currently too dark and greasy to figure out.

With a test light on the coil +, it appears to "blink" from dim to brighter as the car is cranked, indicating to me that the ignition module is at least trying to toggle the coil. It just doesn't make a spark.

No spare coil was available to swap with, but coil is newish. Possible that it's healthy but just not getting enough current flow to generate a spark.

Ballast resistance was an ohm or two.

+ to - of coil was approximately 2 ohms.

+ to high voltage of coil was several K ohms.

Coil body was possibly not grounded securely, if that matters.


Any insight based on that?


Offline challenger72rt

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Re: Desperately Need Electrical Help-Revived
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2005 - 01:31:36 PM »
Yeah...what he said
"Once upon a time I had a really bad Monday"

Offline MEK-Dangerfield

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Re: Desperately Need Electrical Help-Revived
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2005 - 03:56:31 PM »
You guys make a great tag team(LOL). I feel bad I don't live closer. I'd love to get a look at this. The thing I don't like is the 9 volts on the wire heading into the ballast resisitor. That should be 12v. Yes, a badly grounded coil would be a problem, but it looks like the problem is further upstream. I'm stumped right now, because it looks like the ignition switch, ignition box, and coil aren't the problem. The ballast resistor should be about 1.2 ohms, but that isn't the problem if you are only getting 9 volts into it(I'm thinking out loud here). The only possible solution I see at this point is the feed from the battery. How do the connections look? Is it grounded well? Any corrosion problems?

  Mike

Edit: Just out of curiousity, what gauge wire are you running from the trunk? Maybe it's too small?
« Last Edit: November 09, 2005 - 04:06:25 PM by MEKrunner »

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Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Desperately Need Electrical Help-Revived
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2005 - 08:42:36 PM »
find the problem with the battery supplying voltage first , I use welding cable ofr rear battery installs & run straight to the starter then use a battery cable from the starter to the starter relay , make sure the cable is big enough & you have no resistance in the circuit first 

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