Author Topic: Sport compacts vs. old muscle cars on drag strip.  (Read 28352 times)

Offline 360 'CUDA

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Re: Sport compacts vs. old muscle cars on drag strip.
« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2005 - 11:47:12 AM »
I was waiting for someone to bring up a good A-body

Seems to me you could put together a good Demon or Duster small block to go against any fox body
(the green brick comes to mind)






Yellow_Fish

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Re: Sport compacts vs. old muscle cars on drag strip.
« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2005 - 11:56:55 AM »
That one used to jump UP (literally) and go. I never put a cage in it and it eventually cracked the firewall and a few other places.

Offline dgc333

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Re: Sport compacts vs. old muscle cars on drag strip.
« Reply #32 on: February 19, 2005 - 01:24:24 PM »

I choose to ignore the comment on that $1K upgrade to a Dodge Omni to make it run 11's. :bs:


Lets see; You purchase an intercooler at the junk yard from a Saab for $100. Go to the Grainger Catalog and purchase an adjustable pressure valve $10 and adjusteble pressure switch $20. Now you need to score an adjustable fuel pressure regulator $100. Most any used fuel injector $10. A 3" exhaust $250. A set of used slicks $100. That's $590 leaving $400 for ods and ends.

The Grainger pressure valve is used to by-pass the computer controller boost and allows you to crank it up to 20psi or so. The extra fuel injector is mounted into the intake in a convenient place and is activated by the Grainger adjustable pressure switch. The fuel pressure regulator is used to fine tune the fuel mixture the SAAB intercooler is to help control detonation. You will also need to solder a diode across the map sensor to trick the computer into think the engine is not in an over boost condition.

You work your way up to the 20psi boost range and you will have the Omni into the 11's. One thing the folks in the Shelby Dodge Club know how to do is make horsepower on the cheap. The bottom end of the trubo 2.2 motor is plenty strong the weak link is head gaskets. Some of the guys turning these numbers are changing head gaskets between runs. If you are quick it can be done in 30 minutes. However one little opps in mixture or a bit of detonation and the stock cast pistons are history.

If you had looked at Gary Donavans Hall of fame all none of these cars have huge money in them. Typically what happens is you make a few runs in the 11's and breaking parts gets old so you start investing in some more durable parts. Forged pistons is usually a first upgrade. Then the block gets o-ringed and stronger head studs are used.

But getting a turbo Omni into the 11's for $1000, certainly can be done and has been done many times.

Offline Grancoupe

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Re: Sport compacts vs. old muscle cars on drag strip.
« Reply #33 on: February 19, 2005 - 02:10:37 PM »
I have a hard time believing that a cam swap with an agressive grind to a 440, maybe gasket matching the heads and manifold, wouln't put the car into the 11's.

That would come to less than 1000 bucks.

and stay together between runs too.

Offline 360 'CUDA

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Re: Sport compacts vs. old muscle cars on drag strip.
« Reply #34 on: February 19, 2005 - 03:10:33 PM »
Quote
But getting a turbo Omni into the 11's for $1000, certainly can be done and has been done many times.

OK but why?


The point of drag racing is going rounds and winning races. The FWD cars are not consistant and changing
head gaskets between rounds doesn't sound like fun.


Offline Rolling_Thunder

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Re: Sport compacts vs. old muscle cars on drag strip.
« Reply #35 on: February 19, 2005 - 03:50:24 PM »
buy a rust bucket A-body replace the sheet medal, build a 440, put in a 727, subframe connectors, and 4.10's and you've spent maybe $10,000 ? and im sure you could whip the ass of at least 90% of the imports at the strip
2013 Dodge Challenger R/T - 5.7L / 6-speed

1973 Dodge Challenger Rallye - 340 / Auto

1968 Dodge Charger - 6.1L / 6-speed

1964 Dodge Polara - 440 8-71 / 4-speed

Offline 74chall

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Re: Sport compacts vs. old muscle cars on drag strip.
« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2005 - 04:07:45 PM »
The guys I work with are telling me the sport compacts rule the drag strip in the street legal classes. Does anyone have some solid facts that I can show these guys?

Well I really don't understand the question. But heres my take on it.

Your muscle car... lets just say a cuda for example. lets start off with a runnign and driving 72-74. They go for about what 10k for a decent one with a small block? Now buying a big block and building it,buliding the trans and rear to hold it, the wheels and tires etc. That right there is about 10 k to get the car in the high 11's. Maybe you could do it cheaper. So now your into it for 20k, no air conditiong and tachin out at 3,500 going 60mph down the free way to get to the track listening to loud pipes resonace beating into your head giving you a head ache.

Now some of the imports today you can but new for less then 20k and they run low to high 13's right from the factory. Ex. Lancer evo,srt 4, wrx, etc. lets not forget the 90-99 turbo dsm's and v tec hondas you can snag for dirt cheap, about 5k running high 14's stock. The after market is so huge for these imports . with a little computer work, a free flowing exhaust, intake, turbo upgrade etc, you can get them into the 12's fairly easily,CHEAP ,still be reliable and drive to the track and whatever speed you would like, hold a coversation with the radio and air conditioing on a still rip off a quick time.

I like both, but if you wnat an everyday driver and also like performance/somewhat of gas milage and import is an alright car to go with.
Now when you start getting to the low 11second range, it takes alot more money to start making the car go faster. this is where a muscle car would start gettign cheaper but now your turning into a strictly race car. Both have there good and bad parts. You guys probably think I'm nuts now but if any of you had the experience of both, you can relate to what im saying.

 8)
« Last Edit: February 19, 2005 - 04:11:31 PM by 74chall »

Offline 74MOPAR

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Re: Sport compacts vs. old muscle cars on drag strip.
« Reply #37 on: February 19, 2005 - 11:22:31 PM »
I have a hard time believing that a cam swap with an agressive grind to a 440, maybe gasket matching the heads and manifold, wouln't put the car into the 11's.

That would come to less than 1000 bucks.

and stay together between runs too.

 I have a hard time believing it would. [11 seconds on  a stock 440 {plus cam} with showroom available gears]
 
 How is Nitrous any more "cheating " than any other modification ?
 Basically whatever mod we do to our cars involves getting more air and fuel into the motor, and making it stronger.
 Big Cam= more air
 Ported heads= more air
 headers= more air
 nitrous= more air....

Maybe they do rule the dragstrips where you live ReturnofCuda - go participate + find out .  :boxer:
 
74 'Cuda + 73 Charger Rally + $$ + assembly= Noble M400
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 78 Aspen Super Coupe

Offline ReturnofCuda

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Re: Sport compacts vs. old muscle cars on drag strip.
« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2005 - 12:38:01 AM »

Maybe they do rule the dragstrips where you live ReturnofCuda - go participate + find out . :boxer:
 
I won't participate due to lack of time, money and a car capable of making a showing. I have two friends whom frequent the track, one of which has an 8 sec. car. They stated the lower the E.T.'s get the less 4 and 6 cylinder cars you see. They did say there is a hand full running in the 9 sec. bracket. The one with the 8 sec. car drives his around a lot. Cecil county, MD, and Maple Grove, PA.  :mad:
Doug
1973 Cuda 340, TF727, 8 3/4 3.55 posi

Offline dgc333

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Re: Sport compacts vs. old muscle cars on drag strip.
« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2005 - 10:44:53 AM »
OK but why?

The point of drag racing is going rounds and winning races. The FWD cars are not consistant and changing
head gaskets between rounds doesn't sound like fun.


Mainly it's the looks on the faces of the big block chevy, mopar or what ever brand they dust off with a beat up rusty Omni even the annoucers at the local strip get into the David and Goliath thing. Gus Mahon (god rest his sole) used to race a turbo mini van (best of 12.99) that the sole purpose for having it was to embrass 5.0 Mustang drivers. A great many of the Shelby Dodge guys are motivated to see how fast they can go on ho little money. There's no trick to going fast when you spend a truck load of money. The ones that truely get invoved in racing will be spending more to make the motor last.

If you take the cost of the car the cost to upgrade and the cost to replace broken parts you could still race every weekend for less total investment than a 440 powered mopar that will go the whole season without breaking.

Whatever makes you happy is what's important.

If the point of drag racing is going rounds and winning races you can do that with an 18 second car. At least in my neck of the woods almost all sportsman class racing is bracket so consistency and not sped is the premium.

I only  brought up the turbo FWD 4cyl cars to make you guys aware that there are lots of ways of going fast and the muscle cars of the 60's and 70's are not the end all when you start to talk about getting down the 1/4 mile. You aught to visit NE Dragway and take a gander at the snowmobiles that are turning 8 sec quarters at 140+ mph. Yes, snowmobiles on pavement. They use a slick track and have small wheels attached to the ski's on the front, it's truely and amazing thing to watch.


Offline 74MOPAR

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Re: Sport compacts vs. old muscle cars on drag strip.
« Reply #40 on: February 20, 2005 - 09:08:01 PM »
 well lack of a car capable of getting there would be a big hinderance

 8 seconds on a snowmobile- yikes !

 no-one is getting into the nines around here in a sport compact- not that I've seen anyhow.
 Then again, I don't see 9 second cars drive into the track either, they all come on trailers.

 As far as Saturns handling good.... :laughing:.    That is not a marque I would think could outhandle a musclecar with suspension modifications.
74 'Cuda + 73 Charger Rally + $$ + assembly= Noble M400
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Plum6Pak

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Re: Sport compacts vs. old muscle cars on drag strip.
« Reply #41 on: February 20, 2005 - 10:30:34 PM »
They may be able to make them (the ricers and 4 bangers) fast for a few minutes :grinyes: and they may have their place :puke: but they will never REplace!!!
There were thousands of these bad a$$ Mopars made that came from the factory doing what they do best and the looks is a big part of it too, nothing beats the look of these bad boys!!!! IMHO
« Last Edit: February 20, 2005 - 10:33:30 PM by Plum6Pak »

Offline 4Cruizn

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Re: Sport compacts vs. old muscle cars on drag strip.
« Reply #42 on: February 20, 2005 - 10:41:19 PM »
     :drool:   :drool:   :drool:   :drool:

Offline 74chall

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Re: Sport compacts vs. old muscle cars on drag strip.
« Reply #43 on: February 21, 2005 - 08:55:20 AM »
  :worship: :worship: :iagree:

Plum6Pak

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Re: Sport compacts vs. old muscle cars on drag strip.
« Reply #44 on: February 21, 2005 - 09:04:02 AM »
BTW, off the subject but I need to thank 6PKRunner for the pictures you see above and in my avatar, got a couple of nice posters from him also that I'll post on a different thread. FYI anyone wanting any posters of these or of your own rides, get in touch with 6PK, they're awesome!
 :worship: :thumbs: