Plus it worries me alittle because sometimes they are using REAL 340 and 383 car to do it...
JS27
I guess the thing that gets me is alot of people calling their car a clone but it's not. People don't understand that a clone is an exact copy of an original. Exact means Exact. Most so called clones are actually modified cars. I saw some guy with a 74 cuda with AAR stripes down the side and he is calling it a clone. Sorry but in order for it to be a clone . . . you need to have an original first!! There was no round taillight AAR so there can be NO CLONE! What a DIPSTICK!
I guess the thing that gets me is alot of people calling their car a clone but it's not. People don't understand that a clone is an exact copy of an original. Exact means Exact. Most so called clones are actually modified cars. I saw some guy with a 74 cuda with AAR stripes down the side and he is calling it a clone. Sorry but in order for it to be a clone . . . you need to have an original first!! There was no round taillight AAR so there can be NO CLONE! What a DIPSTICK!
Wouldnt EXACT then also mean that the VIN number would have to duplicate of an original ? To be EXACT.
Therefore by your definition.... THERE ARE NO CLONES. only modified cars.
Either the car is original or it isnt. end of story.
What he means is that HE is defining a clone as a car that has been modified to CORRECTLY duplicate a model that the factory actually did build. Sort of like this, if you took a 71 Challenger and made it look like the T/A they advertised in the 71 brochure, you WOULD NOT have a clone because Chrysler Corp. never actually BUILT a 71 Challenger T/A. You would however have a very nice car that would probably command a very high dollar depending on the quality of the "cloning", which kind of makes me say if I had one (in excellent condition) I wouldn't really care what any one else thought ! ! ! ! I still have to ask, what difference does it make if the owner is happy? Who is any one else to say what is good or bad unless the guy is LYING in order to take advantage of someone else, in which case that person NEEDS to be put in his place.
Clone is a poor A$$ word to use anyways. Replica would be better.
Well before the "PC" crowds, we called'em Fakes in the 80ds.
lol that's funny cudahob!! We called them "wanna-be's" ([url]http://bestsmileys.com/cars/22.gif[/url])
I sure wish I could use the old smileys. :grinyes:
Mike....that was waaaay to much material for April to work with!!
whats a clone?
Burpin thinks it it werent for clones, then the chances of seeing a true 71 hemi convert would be rare. Secondly if it werent for clones Burpin wouldnt get too see so many fake boobies. :)I like the way you think,fakies,lol,CLones of the untlimate,lol.
clones are ok as long as u don't claim it to be real...and at car shows...a clone class should be included...several years ago in englishtown there was a 6cyl cloned to a 440-6 pack and put in my class as a modified e-body....lucky e-town judges moved him into another class..
OMG Rev,
I NEVER even thought of that!!! I hope she doesn't see this thread. I'm doomed otherwise. Maybe you should be my editor-in -chief to prevent me from making a fool of myself???(if you don't charge too much)
Mike
several years ago in englishtown there was a 6cyl cloned to a 440-6 pack and put in my class as a modified e-body....lucky e-town judges moved him into another class..
I think you should save your money and not build/buy clones. It is a wananbee and in the end it has no real value.
Te problem with clones is that people mess with so many cars to make them, the cars they use are becomeing rare.True,The GC is rare anymore,most small bock gc's were cloned,unfortunatly
How many barracuda GC's have been turned into 'cudas?
If I find a 318 Charger, Barracuda, Challenger, Satellite or others, it's not staying 318 no matter how rare it is, that is unless I can sell it to make enough to build a better one. Earlier this year I had a one of 138 Coronet 361 2bbl 4 speed 2 dr hdtp buckets etc etc and it wasn't going to remain a 361 for long, it ended up getting traded but my point is, it wasn't a collectable to most people, clone it, hot rod it, do whatever gets your heart pounding, it's your car, do what ever you want to it! Shame on anyone else who puts you down for whatever you do to it unless you are trying to run a scam or trying to convince others it's an original numbers matchjing whatever. I have this low production numbers 70 383 Satellite that has matching numbers on everything. It's getting the 383 parked in the barn and stroker inserted, Satellite emblems going on the shelf, chrome trim going on the shelf, gas tank getting a fuel cell, column shift getting shelfed and getting a Cheetah reverse pattern shifter, hood is going in the barn and getting a fiberglass 6pak hood, weld in frame rails, etc etc etc. All original, numbers matching getting thrashed!! LOL Just making my point, itr's mine and it's gonna be a fun Mopar to be sure! BIHYWThe 318 cars arent that diesireable or collectable.TODAY!.What about 10-20 years from now?there wont be many left and they will be,so to me changing even a small block numbers car is mopar sacrilege ,Remember when a Hemi car wasnt desireable either?Not too long ago.A buddy that is an e-body restorer last year had a nice numbers matchng 340/4 sp cuda vert,he made a hemi cuda vert clone out of it.Its a major mopar sin since he did it just to make more money on the sell of the car,I would have left it a 340 cuda vert.
Clones have less risk of losing high values due to driving but can be driven exactly the same as a clone...more fun or not is up to the driver.
I do have to add that clones are cool if a non numbers car was used in the cloning process,chucking a 340 numbers car to make a big block or hemi car is wrong to me no matter how you slice it.If the restorer has a numbers car it should be saved and purchase another car(maybe minus engine tranny)and clone that
I agree totally! Excellent point.But in the end, it all does come down to that if it's someone's car, it's their call what they do with it.Agreed,If i were into verts I would definatly build hemi cuda vert clone,cause i could never buy an original(maybe I'll buy a delorean,travel back in time and buy a dozen or 2),unless the granny down the street has one in her garage and doesnt know what its worth,then i would probably sell it and buy 30 more b @ e bodies with the cash,then pay off my ranch,buy my mom a house and take a Vaca:+).And while I am a moparnut,I wont mortguage my ranch just to buy a car,i like to live under my means instead of over it,been there done that.There was a 70 challenger vert 383 plumb crazy numbers car at a local mopar show sunday for 30k,it was all there but needed to be restored,while i was drooling over it and could have bought it,It was more than i would spend on a pile of dirt,afterall thats what steel,rubber and glass really is in its basic form.If it was restored it probably would be in my shop right now.I cant see paying that much for a project,even though its Mucho desireable.And when i am called up yonder,God has a 1 of 1 Hemi cuda wating for me:)
Awesome 71 GTX/ RR Jim :drool: :thumbs:
Thanks CP, the pic is not the best,...........it's a 72 model. I've in the past refered to the car as a clone, I guess because that was the "catch phrase"? I run her build specs through a dymo software program and it says she should put out 475 hp and 530 # torque, all I can tell you it sounds mean as hell straight out of the headers and about a three mile drive leaves you asking, "huh? wata ya say?" lol
I've found the 71-2 B bodies to be the tightest old mopars, very nice driving, well built cars.
He's just kidding........what he MEANT to say is E-Bodies..... lol
(Nice runner hemi71)
Wait a minute....
You bought that car, with no visible rust, for $500??????
What a find!!!! :worshippy :worshippy :worshippy
Mike
Wish I had my White 1970 Challenger back. I wish I had never got rid of it.
I understand dress-up items like hoods, spoilers, fender gills, trim, etc. They actually improve the look of the car.
I just don't understand emblems.
Why must you have an "SS" badge on the grille/fender? Why must you have "R/T" emblems if it's not an R/T? They add nothing to the look of the car IMHO.
Well as long as he does all my work and I get the credit for it I have no problem with clones...
Each to his own. The badges make the car also.
clones are the best-
you can modify and drive the hell out of them-and not worrying about messing up an original. :2thumbs:
clones are the best-
you can modify and drive the hell out of them-and not worrying about messing up an original. :2thumbs:
:iagree:
Nice looking T/A Bad :2thumbs:
Deep down...done properly whats the difference between your car and an original?
some tags, some #'s, and $$$.
The real one isn't faster, better looking, etc.. and isn't driving what it's really all about?
I wish I was lucky enough to have a bunch of ...say 260 Cobras "cloned" into 427's.
Those clones wouldn't be worth much today now would they?
Come to think of it..all those were clones of the British AC sports cars anyways and somehow they are all $ix and $even figure cars !
As far as Cobras go, that's why I love kit cars. A Factory Five Racing kit will get you a small block, fuel injected car that'll be fast and economical for under $20K. Plus you won't stress out everytime you're out driving it because you aren't worried about getting into an accident in a "real" Cobra. You can actually enjoy the car.Sorry to get off topic but as far as factory five goes it is a great economical way to build a kit. However their bodies are way out of proportion and many of the lines are completely different than that of a real cobra. My dad works for one of the top cobra builders and so I have learned a lot about cobras the past few years and I will never own a factory five kit because there are way better kits out there that aren't that much more money, and they aren't that fast. The guy my dad works for builds the fastest cobras and his cars aren't allowed to compete in the factory five series any more because a teenager with a fresh license in one of these cars would walk all over a factory five car with a really good driver.
FYI- Factory Five Racing is having an open house June 14, Sat., in Wareham , MA. :) If good weather they are expecting about 150 Cobras there.
Sorry to get off topic but as far as factory five goes it is a great economical way to build a kit. However their bodies are way out of proportion and many of the lines are completely different than that of a real cobra. My dad works for one of the top cobra builders and so I have learned a lot about cobras the past few years and I will never own a factory five kit because there are way better kits out there that aren't that much more money
im building a clone and gonna pass it up as the real thing ...and cash in like its the real thing. :roflsmiley:Let us know how that turns out....
one of the awesome things about a clone is that it could have been.:iagree: I'm making mine a 71 R/T clone that I can drive and not worry about.
it is what the factory would have put out.
now if you only go 50-90% it is still cool.
just dont try and sell one as original...
and going down the road I don't think anyone can read the vin tag anyways.
I am actually making my challenger a double clone. It started out as a 1974 318 car, but now it looks like a 1970 and will have the t/a components. The original vin will still be on the dash showing it is a 1974. The car was completely rusted out in the rear. At least the car was saved and not junked out.
By the way...I have always liked the 69 and 70 mustang fastbacks! :2thumbs:
boyds,
Love those wheels! :cheers:
Brad your car is looking great, I am in the shop now redoing my front end with the new Magnum force drop spindles and Hotchkis tie rod ends.
I am still not sold on these heim joints for a street track car.
Speaking of suspensions, when are you going to lower yours Brad? :stirpot:
Can't say I'm a fan.
I like Brads idea above. It has the T/A look, but doesn't actually say T/A anywhere on it. Same as the guy from Finland(?) doing the PPR 'Cuda. They're both awesome.
But putting T/A, AAR or R/T etc on something that isn't such is kinda gay.
Isn't that why ricers cop so much ****? Because they put Mugen & TRD stickers all over their base model Honda's & Toyota's etc? Pretending their cars are more than what they are? Isn't that the basis for what a Ricer originally was?
Hey! :villagers: Easy on the Light Blue.....
:iagree: :stomp: What's wrong with light blue (Super/Petty blue)? Or Plum Crazy or Panther Pink.....well....maybe Panther Pink... :misbehaving:
:roflsmiley:
Hey, Pink Ice wants to know what wrong with Panther Pink? She thinks she looks good in that color. I agree. Hope everyone is having a great week so far.
Pink Ice
AARuFAST//////////// CUDA AAR
In most states it is against the law to change vin numbers from one car to another. Those who build clones mostly change the engine that is not what I consider a clone. Like changing a 6 cyl or 318 to a larger fuel efficient or performance engine. But taking a car example Barracuda cloning it into an AAR and selling for an atrocious price. First the seller has raped the buyer and the buyer is a FOOL. These people that are sticking Hemi's in every MOPAR model believe they should get 10 times what its worth and the FOOLS want them. Adding mirrors, rubber bumpers, changing hood style I don't conside part of cloning. These were options. Putting a 6.1 crate engine in a Barracuda and not
beefing up the suspension calling it a HEMI CUDA is a piece of crap....The Camaro of the 60's are dime a dozen and there are FOOLS out there that will pay up the butt just for a car that everyone and thier mother own. Yenko, COPO, cloned from a cheap model Camaro and the FOOLS pay up the yingyang. FOOLS.....The only car that I don't see getting clones much is the 50 to 60's Mustang. They don't need cloned they are a class of their own....... Thanks to Barrett JACKu and Hagerty your 10 to 20 thousand car is now
a 60th to 1 million $ car. The auction FOOLS jacked the price up and Hagerty is laughing all the way to the bank because your insurance is higher. If you like your ride u better have it covered or u wreck it and the insurance totals it. They take the car and rebuild it and sell it for a profit and u get what u insured it for.....So if you have your ride insured for 10 grand and its listed at 60 +grand u get 10 grand, insurance co.
gets your car and they rebuild it and sell it for 60 grand.
I purchased my GC it came with a spoiler and hockey stick stripe, it should have a Luggage Rack which I am in the process of restoring. Trunk is in paint shop. Don't know if I will like it Spoiler looks beefier. To the know it alls. I know
GC's never had spoilers or hockey sticks. So is this a clone GC trying to be a CUDA. It has a lot of MUSCLE 383 4 bl Edelbrock carb. maniford.
So, buy a cheap car and make it into a cloned whatever and sell it for big bucks to some FOOL
I hope you are feeling better now that you got all of that out!
There was a 50's Mustang???
So everybody that buys a "Clone/Tribute" car for the huge bucks, when it clearly took huge bucks to "Reproduce" that AAR Cuda, or Hemi Challenger R/T SE, are fools?
I took a basket case 1974 challenger and cloned it to a 1970 with t/a stripes, hood and duck tail all for under $8,000.00. it has a 360 in it. The vin is still on the dash that says it's a 1974. I cloned this car to look like a 1970 because I didn't have the money to buy the real t/a although it looks like one until you opened the hood or looked at the vin. Does this make me a fool? Check out the pic. it only looks expensive, but wouldn't sell for a ton of money. I do agree that "re-bodying" is wrong. Passing off an "original" hemi to someone that was an original 318 car is not being honest. At least with a clone, somone knows what their buying. It's just a matter of how much they are willing to pay.
MY :2cents: My :2cents: = 2 cts.For the record: :2cents:+ :2cents:=4. At least you have an opinion. You deserve credit for that. :thumbsup: Nice pair of cars you have.
opinions are like (0) and there are a lot of them.
Howdy folks,
Just chiming in with a stripped, ex-dragged, beat to crap no fender tag bearing 318 Gran Coupe.... What was it worth? I don't know but I paid $2000.00. What am I building? A rebuilt 440, Shaker, Dana 60, etc. What will it be worth when I'm finished? To be honest, I am not building this car with the consideration it will be sold for profit.
Over the last year I've begun working at a legit automotive restoration and race shop (mostly early Porsche but we set up cup cars and custom Porsche racers) and I am learning a great deal about fab work, car values and restoration costs. One thing I know is that what I have chosen to do is a pointless exercise if I intended to ever make a profit. The saying is... "spend all that money and effort but what will you have in the end?" In my case, just a 318 non-numbers matching car.
I don't care. I have two small kids, a house payment and I will not be able to afford to buy a completed car like what I am building for decades! I am happy, my kids like it and I get exactly what I want without modifying and destroying the value of a numbers car.
Just my opinion but I believe if you look at all the customized, Hemi cloned, roll bar, t-top, lowered, 4 link, stuff out there that it is better to do it to a low performance car than something that had some value. There are plenty of skeletons rusting away out there, save one and enjoy it! (Hopefully) You are never going to change the VIN or tags so you get what you get and love the crap out of it!
G
Just chiming in with a stripped, ex-dragged, beat to crap no fender tag bearing 318 Gran Coupe
What am I building? A rebuilt 440, Shaker, Dana 60, etc
:useless:
I'm with ya (i only left out the shaker & dana):
([url]http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad45/eb3-grancoupe/March%205%20%202011/100_1713.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad45/eb3-grancoupe/March%205%20%202011/100_1692.jpg[/url])
Great sounding project car!
Sounds like you are saving it from oblivion, so build whatever will make you happy :2thumbs:
What year is it?
oh, and btw the price is great too, but the final value will be totally dependent on the quality of your build, and what the market is like when you finish it.
Who knows? But if you do a good job of it that car would be a $30k plus car in todays market, esp if its a 70 or 71 with a 4sp and a popular color.
But it could easily cost you $30k in parts alone to get there, not including your time and labor, but that part of it is priceless!? Right?
I may be an illegitimate member of the big block E-body convertible club, but I'm a member!
whats a clone?
I think JHC nailed it. My car started life as a lowly 318 auto without AC. The guy who helped me finish it has a numbers '69 Hemi Roadrunner. At shows, my family and I would walk around, talk to people and generally have a good time while he was stuck guarding his car for fear something would happen to it.
He has come to "hate" his car. Can't drive it, can't leave it at a show and can't sell it for what he feels he should get out of it.
He is now looking for an E-body to drop a crate Hemi into so that he can actually enjoy owning a Hemi car.
There is a lot to be said for having a car that is a blank slate without the fear of devaluing it.
I could be mistaken but I think that ALL of the 71 hemi cuda verts have been accounted for, and I have never heard that one had been rebodied. I think the famous last one was blue
Trust me at least one has been rebodied.
Ben
I searched the web but nothing comes up Maddox TV shw.
Are you thinking of Mannix?
Mannix drove a Dart didn't he? :clueless:
Mannix drove a Dart didn't he? :clueless:
I realize that this thread has been idle for a while, but I'm new to the board and wanted to put my .02 cents worth in on the subject so I'm reviving it.
In the summer of '85 there was a good sized Mopar car show and swap meet at the Shelby facillity (he was with Dodge then) in Santa Fe Springs CA (Los Angles area). I left my '70 HemiCuda at home and went there with the truck as I had a lot of parts I wanted to deal at the swap meet. While there a gleaming Rallye Red '71 HemiCuda convertible with black top, black interior, black billboards and a Coca-cola front license plate (don't know why I recall the plate?) came rumbling in as part of the show. I was in awe as I had never seen one of the "holy grail" '71 HemiCuda convertibles in person before. Once he got settled in I sauntered over there to check it out. As I'm admiring his car and gushing about how awesome it was to finally see one of the real '71 HemiCuda convertibles in person he chuckles and tells me that it isn' t a "real" one. "Excuse me?" I say. He then tells me that it is a "clone" (or something to that effect) and that he built it into a HemiCuda from a lesser convertible (383 I think?). "Oh? So it's a fake?" I say with a hint of distain in my voice and then went back to my parts display.
It was an absolutely beautiful car in every detail. However, because it wasn't "real" I acted like a snob and snub him. What a jackass I was! I was a "purist" back then and believed that Mopars were what they left the factory as and nothing more. Modify them all you want but you couldn't turn a 318 Challenger into a 340 RT or a 383 Cuda convertible into a HemiCuda convertible. In the mid-80's there were still a lot of original cars around and they didn't cost a second mortgage to buy. If you wanted a particular car you sought it out and bought it - you didn't "build" it. "Clones", "tributes", "recreations" or whatever you want to refer to them as, were relatively new at the time, and I think that '71 HemiCuda convertible was the first one I ran into.
Things are different now. Through attrition the original cars have become scarce and the rule of supply and demand makes it so that they cost a bundle when you find one. And then there is the historical significance of some of these cars - they're just too rare and valuable to make into anything other than museum pieces. Enter the "clone". If you didn't get it back when it was affordable, or if you are not wealthy enough to get it now all you have to do is "clone" it. It took them a while but the aftermarket body parts business has finally caught up with those for the Mustang and Camaro where you can now get whatever you need to make whatever you want.
I agree with many of the inputs on this thread. "Cloning" is good for the hobby for there just were not enough of the original cars made for everyone to have what they would really like. "Cloning" is good for the aftermarket parts business - demand drives the business and if nobody was cloning most of these parts simply wouldn't be available. "Cloning" is good for me. I had an original HemiCuda for four great years back in the '80's but I had to let it go. I simply could not afford to buy one now. However, if I really wanted one, I could probably stretch for a nice "clone" of one.
Lastly I just wanted to say that I might have been an anti-clone jackass back in the '80's but I'm all on board now. And if you happen to be that guy who had that beautiful '71 HemiCuda convertible "clone" at the Shelby meet in '85 I apologize for my rudeness and commend you for being a "cloning" pioneer.
I was there at the Shelby test facility car show I think around that time.
I do recall Coca Cola license plate frame. I was in awe too as it was my first Hemi Cuda I had ever seen in person.
You were there? That's totally cool!
That "clone" '71 HemiCuda convertible was exceptionally nice wasn't it? WTH is it about that Coca Cola license plate that made it memorable? I can't remember the guys name but I remember his license plate. I would think that I would remember other details about the car other than that stupid license plate.
Man that was a long time ago. I was starting to think that everything that I was referencing pre-dated practically everyone else on this board! Thanks for the reply. I hope to make more connections as I go along.
And the Red 71 Hemi Cuda Vert Clone was built by Randy Gerstenberg who owned Cuda Country
Looks like a vintage '80's pic and to me it looks like the Lake Tahoe meet. In the '80's they held a late summer Mopar meet just outside of Lake Tahoe. I forget what they called it ... Mopars in the mountains? Something like that.
Power In The Pines... Held at Kirkwood Ski Resort.... I was at all three of the shows 85, 86 & 87, Awesome location for a car show... Wish it had continued...
Amongst all the other cool stuff the swap meet was amazing.. First time I saw a Sixpack manifold,carbs & air cleaner sell for big money.. $500... I'd bought three prior to that & never paid more than $100....
That's it! "Power in the pines".
It only ran for three years? I was there in '85 and '86 but I didn't make the '87 meet as I moved out of California for Florida in the spring of '87. I just assumed it continued on for years and years.
The swap meet was great too. Sold off a lot of stuff there. I had a pair of E-body convertible rear interior side panels (white) that I sold for like $50 or $60 for the pair and I thought that I made a killing!! :smilielol:
Was also the place that I saw my first 'Cuda with a bench seat and column shift automatic. Up until then I didn't know you could get a Cuda with a bench seat. Oh and get this, of all things it was a '71 HemiCuda and it was black with white billboards. :drool:
I bought a set of white convertible panels there... For $50.. They are in my car in the garage... :roflsmiley: BTW Did I say Thank You??
Oh, And.... Just to add to the story, the Black & White Hemicuda was originally ordered by an Oakland CHP Officer.... The White roof is painted (V02) not a vinyl top...
Power In The Pines... Held at Kirkwood Ski Resort.... I was at all three of the shows 85, 86 & 87, Awesome location for a car show... Wish it had continued...
Amongst all the other cool stuff the swap meet was amazing.. First time I saw a Sixpack manifold,carbs & air cleaner sell for big money.. $500... I'd bought three prior to that & never paid more than $100....
I thought the show was great, the swap was excellent but what I enjoyed most was the drive & seeing 15-20 brightly colored Mopars all going down the mountain roads together...
I like Clones!! More guys are willing to drive a clone than what have unfortunately become "Investments" Currently I don't own any clones but I have & from the drivers seat it felt just like the real thing.... From the outside it looked just like the real thing... Only way it was different was a couple numbers/letters on a plate... Screw the numbers! Drive it!! I've owned original Hemicars, Sixpacks, A T/A.. They all had one thing in common.. If they run they get driven....:iagree:
:iagree:
I own a clone and proud of it. When finished, it will be a driver and don't care about numbers.
I realize that this thread has been idle for a while, but I'm new to the board and wanted to put my .02 cents worth in on the subject so I'm reviving it.
In the summer of '85 there was a good sized Mopar car show and swap meet at the Shelby facillity (he was with Dodge then) in Santa Fe Springs CA (Los Angles area). I left my '70 HemiCuda at home and went there with the truck as I had a lot of parts I wanted to deal at the swap meet. While there a gleaming Rallye Red '71 HemiCuda convertible with black top, black interior, black billboards and a Coca-cola front license plate (don't know why I recall the plate?) came rumbling in as part of the show. I was in awe as I had never seen one of the "holy grail" '71 HemiCuda convertibles in person before. Once he got settled in I sauntered over there to check it out. As I'm admiring his car and gushing about how awesome it was to finally see one of the real '71 HemiCuda convertibles in person he chuckles and tells me that it isn' t a "real" one. "Excuse me?" I say. He then tells me that it is a "clone" (or something to that effect) and that he built it into a HemiCuda from a lesser convertible (383 I think?). "Oh? So it's a fake?" I say with a hint of distain in my voice and then went back to my parts display.
It was an absolutely beautiful car in every detail. However, because it wasn't "real" I acted like a snob and snub him. What a jackass I was! I was a "purist" back then and believed that Mopars were what they left the factory as and nothing more. Modify them all you want but you couldn't turn a 318 Challenger into a 340 RT or a 383 Cuda convertible into a HemiCuda convertible. In the mid-80's there were still a lot of original cars around and they didn't cost a second mortgage to buy. If you wanted a particular car you sought it out and bought it - you didn't "build" it. "Clones", "tributes", "recreations" or whatever you want to refer to them as, were relatively new at the time, and I think that '71 HemiCuda convertible was the first one I ran into.
Things are different now. Through attrition the original cars have become scarce and the rule of supply and demand makes it so that they cost a bundle when you find one. And then there is the historical significance of some of these cars - they're just too rare and valuable to make into anything other than museum pieces. Enter the "clone". If you didn't get it back when it was affordable, or if you are not wealthy enough to get it now all you have to do is "clone" it. It took them a while but the aftermarket body parts business has finally caught up with those for the Mustang and Camaro where you can now get whatever you need to make whatever you want.
I agree with many of the inputs on this thread. "Cloning" is good for the hobby for there just were not enough of the original cars made for everyone to have what they would really like. "Cloning" is good for the aftermarket parts business - demand drives the business and if nobody was cloning most of these parts simply wouldn't be available. "Cloning" is good for me. I had an original HemiCuda for four great years back in the '80's but I had to let it go. I simply could not afford to buy one now. However, if I really wanted one, I could probably stretch for a nice "clone" of one.
Lastly I just wanted to say that I might have been an anti-clone jackass back in the '80's but I'm all on board now. And if you happen to be that guy who had that beautiful '71 HemiCuda convertible "clone" at the Shelby meet in '85 I apologize for my rudeness and commend you for being a "cloning" pioneer.
I think the car you are talking about at that time belonged to Randy Gerstenburg.
([url]http://michaelphbarnett.50megs.com/images/Randys_Cudas/PURDY_HA.jpg[/url])
That's it alright.
Thanks for the picture.
I remember it very well.
It was the first time I had ever seen the front spoilers on a Cuda'.
Very interesting.I still have the fake '70 Hemicuda Convertible. I also have a '88 Dodge Ramcharger AW100 that my father and I ordered new. I also have a '98 Dodge Ram 3500 V10 Quad Cab Long Bed 4x4. There's pictures of my Ramcharger on another web page that can be reached from the 'Cuda pictures web page.
What Mopars do you have now?
Are you still restoring them?
What has happened over all these years and now you are here?
If you want to email Randy his email is sirhemi@hotmail.com . You were saying he was a cloning pioneer, well I think he got the idea from me. He had a fake '70 Hemicuda hardtop and a fake '71 'Cuda 440+6 Convertible. I had a '70 'Cuda 340 with a 426 Hemi in it and a '70 Barracuda Convertible 318. I told him I was going to switch the drivetrains, steering, suspension and brakes between my cars and make a fake '70 Hemicuda Convertible. He finished his fake before I finished mine.
Web page with pictures of my fake '70 Hemicuda Convertible ([url]http://michaelphbarnett.50megs.com/cudapictures/cudapictures.html[/url])
Then again these people most likely own a fake Rolex also. :poopoke:
Clones are false advertising. Your saying you have something special but really it's a fake LIE. :horse:
One more thing.
Is a fake lie actually the truth??? :smilielol:
I mean a real lie is real. But a fake lie must be the truth :bigsmile:
Being a clone owner, I hope I wasn't labeled a lier in your previous statement. :wave:
Clone owners should have to put a big decal on the side of their cars that say "CLONE - I was not born as the real thing". Lets see how many people would look at their car now. :stirpot:
Example - breast implants Vs real :smilielol:
I like "clones", but to me it's more fun to take it a step farther and go resto-mod. Great fun and there is nothing fake about it. :2cents::iagree:
Example - breast implants Vs real :smilielol:
Real vs Clones / Implants? :clueless:
I think the real question here is which are you going to have the most fun with? :drool:
:2cents:
Ohio man busted for trying to sell cloned Chevelle Z16 as the real thing :misbehaving:
[url]http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2012/04/12/ohio-man-busted-for-trying-to-sell-cloned-chevelle-z16-as-the-real-thing/comment-page-2/[/url] ([url]http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2012/04/12/ohio-man-busted-for-trying-to-sell-cloned-chevelle-z16-as-the-real-thing/comment-page-2/[/url])
That's pretty good and the owner was pretty stupid and a crook.
If it's a clone (or what ever), sell it as that.
I'm certainly biased, but I dont think there's anything fake about a clone.
Done right, there is absolutely NO difference between a clone and a "real" car. Theyre identical except the numbers and paperwork! Cant say that about implants, or fake rolexes etc.
Nothing against real cars, but its JUST A CAR! Theyre not saline boobs or korean watches. They ALL rolled off the same assembly lines and were built by the same workers. The fact that over the past 40 plus years owners have decided to customize their cars however they wanted makes them ALL unique. As long as someone doesnt misrepresent their car, theyre all great as far as Im concerned. :2cents:
As far as restomods, I think theyre great too. And a good argument can be made that a well done restomod is a far better car than the assembly line ebody's could've ever dreamed of being. All depends on what you want from your car. The key being its YOUR car. Do what you want with it and enjoy it, whether its an original rare trailer queen, or a slant six grocery getting beater.
Whoaa....I just realized there's two guys named Tom that have green 71 Cudas......Talk about clones.... :roflsmiley::smilielol: :smilielol: :cheers:
Some people just went crazy when I'd pull in and open the hood, others would walk over look at the vin# and walk away in disgust!!! The car literally stood tall in a field of cars but the 5th letter of the vin wasn't "correct"The difference between enthusiasts and collectors. Nice looking car.
The difference between enthusiasts and collectors. Nice looking car.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXyEQYkuOd8[/url] ([url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXyEQYkuOd8[/url]) If I had a choice between Pat Benatar or a clone, lol! I wish I had that choice.
You can drive a RARE car, but I wouldn't advise it. ANYTHING ELSE? Build it the way you want it, and drive it like you stole it.
Get over it, they are 40 years old. You aren't going to find a pristine example. If you do - what then?
They weren't meant to be garaged for eons to come. ENJOY IT!
99% of you think your kids are going to care what it is? SERIOUSLY?
Better get it out and enjoy it before you die. [url]http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/usa/life-expectancy-white-male[/url] ([url]http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/usa/life-expectancy-white-male[/url])
Enjoy it while yo can. Most men around here seem to die in their 60's, no matter what that thing says. Mid to ate 60's.
Something to think about.
My "l" button doesn't always work.
This is exactly my opinion on the subject! Thank you!Totally Agree with your sentiments
Totally Agree with your sentiments
How many cars have been put away by owners waiting for the eventual day for a total, perfect restoration
It gets to the point where you never restore the car or get too old to really enjoy it.
Build it the way you like it and enjoy it.
I talk to a lot of younger people who have no passion for even owing a car. (Not sure what is happening here?)
When your car is perfect, you are too afraid to use it or its used for the show circuit only.
Dam Man; get the car out and use it, no matter what shape it is in.
Restore it or work on it while you fix it up.
Time waits for no one! (even if the car is part of your 401K)
:iagree: It is all about enjoying the car and DRIVING it. I think clones are great and take it one step farther. I like the idea of making the car look original and improving the suspension and drive train while you are at it. If the goal is to actually use the car then make it drive better than it ever did when it was new. Bottom line ... have fun with your car.
Ok, let's stir the pot
Clone owners should have to put a big decal on the side of their cars that say "CLONE - I was not born as the real thing". Lets see how many people would look at their car now. :stirpot:
Example - breast implants Vs real :smilielol:
:clueless:Love it! :drunk: :dogpile: :smokin:
End of the day if you like the car & you enjoy driving it then it's perfect....
Ok, let's stir the pot
Clone owners should have to put a big decal on the side of their cars that say "CLONE - I was not born as the real thing". Lets see how many people would look at their car now. :stirpot:
Example - breast implants Vs real :smilielol:
If I can see or touch the breasts , they are real!!
Ok, let's stir the pot
Clone owners should have to put a big decal on the side of their cars that say "CLONE - I was not born as the real thing". Lets see how many people would look at their car now. :stirpot:
Example - breast implants Vs real :smilielol:
Everyone enjoys the hobby their own way. I see the all-original guys put socks on the pedals to drive them on and off the trailer. The restomod guys do their thing and that's cool too. Me, I don't want to destroy anything and I like the fact one of my cars is an A66 and the other is a U-code but I've powered both of them up and added shakers to both too. I enjoy the extra power, the slightly better than stock handling and stopping and the original appearance of both cars. The last matching #'s car I had was my 71 Hemi Charger, I loved the car but I drove it too much and was afraid of damaging one of the original components so I sold it. If I blow up one of the Hemis in my current cars all it takes is a few thousand dollars and some new parts and I'll be driving them again. That's what works for me.
Sheldon
Funny how so many point to the creativity involved in doing a Restomod when the reality is these days most of the Restomods are cookie cutter.... Open a catalog & order your Alterkation, Order your Wilwood brakes, order your Vintage Air.... Maybe the really cool Carbon Fiber instrument Cluster.... Lets see, a trans from American Powertrain.... Maybe a D60 from Strange... What's next?
Sorry Restomods aren't particularly creative these days... Ten to fifteen years ago when you had to adapt things that never were intended to go together... Then it was creative.... Creative like Feets with his twin turbo 440 powered 65 Fury with AMG Mercedes 14" 6 piston brakes & one off wheels... Thats creative... These current cookie cutter Restomods... Sorry No...
I get your point, but take a look at it from my (or any other cookie cutter) perspective: I get to be creative at the job that I do whole day long (I'm an architect), I am no mechanic and have very basic knowledge of how suspension should work. I have no garage to take the car apart and the only way for me to enjoy the old school car design with modern driving feel is to pay and have the restomod done by a qualified person.
My opinion is that it is better to have tested and proven products available off the shelf and not having someone experiment with my car and my safety while driving it. I know that those products were thoroughly tested so I see absolutely no problem having them available. If someone wants to experiment and try to put things together that weren't supposed to go together, that's fine by me, but I feel much more comfortable doing it this way.
Having a choice is such a nice thing, no? :-)
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I hear you but I wish the guys building & selling these kits felt as much responsibility for the safety of their customers as the customers buying the stuff initially believe they do....
My suggestion, look at Hotchkis, It's based on the original Chrysler design but with improved geometry... Get a Firm Feel stage 3 box, again based on Chryslers orginal steering box design but greatly improved feel & feed back... No not 100% equal to rack & pinion but allot closer than many give credit for.... Hell Mercedes & BMW used steering gears into the early 2000 time frame... Done properly it can't be that bad... & contact Dr Diff for your brakes... He offers kits based on OE components so...
A) they are factory engineered components
B) parts are available locally...
If your car has a stock power booster keep it, the aftermarket CP unit everyone sells is a piece of crap..
I have no idea what my car has because I still didn't get it. :o
Anyway, thanks for all the info. Basically you answered all of my questions - I wanted to know if RMS is worth the price difference compared to Hotchkis. I will be going with Hotchkis TVS definitely, the whole kit.
I like the Firmfeel route for the same reason. I would like to have them rebuild my original box to level 2. Not looking to do Autocross, just have my car feel a little tighter, while keeping mostly stock.
I think that is a good idea. I'm going Firmfeel, thats more than enough for my sunday cruisings :)
I'm sure AlterK is a great system but somehow it did not feel right to me to totally change the suspension system to a system that the car wasn't made for, just a gut feeling I had when I made the desicion.
I like the Firmfeel route for the same reason. I would like to have them rebuild my original box to level 2. Not looking to do Autocross, just have my car feel a little tighter, while keeping mostly stock.
I like clones BETTER than original cars.
Speaking of steering, I just did this mod.
Simple, low cost, big improvement.
I have some extra shims if anyone needs some.
[url]http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/beep/PUMP_IT_DOWN-re-v1.4.pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/beep/PUMP_IT_DOWN-re-v1.4.pdf[/url])
I have no doubt the FF box is a big improvement.
But the price for that is +$600
You can do this mod for $6
Is the FF box 100 times better, maybe.
This was a quick, simple, inexpensive change for me.
I would recommend you look at going stage 3, everyone I have talked to that had a stage 2 has said they wish they had gone stage 3. It isn't twitchy or crazy sharp.:iagree:
I hear you but I wish the guys building & selling these kits felt as much responsibility for the safety of their customers as the customers buying the stuff initially believe they do....
My suggestion, look at Hotchkis, It's based on the original Chrysler design but with improved geometry... Get a Firm Feel stage 3 box, again based on Chryslers orginal steering box design but greatly improved feel & feed back... No not 100% equal to rack & pinion but allot closer than many give credit for.... Hell Mercedes & BMW used steering gears into the early 2000 time frame... Done properly it can't be that bad... & contact Dr Diff for your brakes... He offers kits based on OE components so...
A) they are factory engineered components
B) parts are available locally...
If your car has a stock power booster keep it, the aftermarket CP unit everyone sells is a piece of crap..
I'm just glad that some of the younger crowd has any interest in our "old" muscle cars.
The clones and resto-mod cars are selling at the auctions and at good prices.
Creation of these cars is fun, innovative, and very expensive.
Another thought to add to this conversation:
Many serious collectors are currently selling off their car collections on the auction sites.
Additionally, many of cars that were part of the "restore it someday" group are coming to the market as the old timers age out, get too old to work on the cars, or just pass on.
Is it a prelude to demand for our cars slowly declining as the younger generation moves on to the more modern muscle?
The next decade will be interesting; time will tell.